50 Most Influential Churches

I sat across from a African pastor in my home. He gets paid with chickens, goats etc... He had to flee for his life on more than one occasion because of muslim rebels. He was one of the most humble men I've ever met. A guy like that would make my list.
Some people have never heard the precious name of Jesus and here in America we want to debate who has the most sway among the people. That is just dumb if nothing else.
Evidently, since abortion is still taking place, crime is bad as ever pornography and gambling are awful popular. The ten commandments are becoming a thing of the past on our buildings. Teen pregnancy is epidemic. Drug use is through the roof. Divorce is epidemic. EVIDENTLY these 50 aren't so influential.
When God spoke to the 7 churches in Rev. Size of the congregation is nowhere to be found. Yet that seems to be a big deal here in the states.
I wonder how much more could be done to spread the Gospel if so much money wasn't spent on church facilites that would give a hotel in Vegas a run for its money.
America as a nation is in big trouble spiritually. Alot of these "feel good" preachers would do their congregations a heap of good if they were to warn them of the coming night a little more often instead of being so concerned with how Joe or Sally feels about themselves.
The great preacher J.C Ryle once said:

"The watchman who keeps silent when he sees a fire is guilty of gross neglect. The doctor who tells us we are well when we are dying is a false friend. And the minister who keeps back hell from his people IN HIS SERMONS is neither a faithful or loving man."

Alot of they guys on that list of the 50 most influential would have a hard time remembering the last time they preached on judgment and the eternal damnation of hell. I mean your looked upon as a old fogie who is out of touch with what unchurched Harry and Sally are needing if you think that preaching on hell is gonna do any good.
What is sad is when I witness to everyday folk they really are lost. They don't know what they need. Yet today they are considered the number one authority on how to grow a church.
Alot of the Ch.Growth gurus talk about how they want to reach the world with the Gospel. They are gonna bring revival. We want to experience church like it was in the book of Acts. Yet, preachers are scared to death to preach like Peter on the day of Pentecost. Today it is considered very unfruitful to be BOLD in proclaiming Christ. Being dogmatic is the cardinal sin. Yet, the early church in Acts was characterized by two things: Prayer and Boldness. Wow, two things that are sorely lacking in American churches. Are the very things that helped the early church thrive.

It is just my opinion but the best thing that could ever happen to the American church is a dose of persecution. I'm not saying I want it. But we would find out then who was the most influential now wouldn't we?

 

ShannonL....AMEN,AMEN,AMEN...and oh yeah....AMEN!!! That is what TRUE Bible Believing,Fundamental Christians are all about if they have their heart RIGHT.Thank You.Preach It!!!

Greg Sr.

Oh yeah...the persecution is just around the corner...just watch and see..God Help Us to be TRUE to Him.

 

C'mon! The Crystal Cathedral? Solid biblical truth just doesn't cut it in todays society. I have even noticed on this board when talking about sound doctrine, people don't think it is that important. I am amazed. There may be some good on the list but I was able to pick out some I wouldn't even attend.

Solid biblical truth is the rudder that God gives his people to navigate through the religious quagmire.

 

Shannon, why do I think you're going to be replacing your banged-up keyboard soon? I could just hear you punching the keys when I read your post. I agree with you.

We've become mediocre in our Christin lives, I think. We don't know what it means to be persecuted. We think missing the Superbowl game because we went to church is suffering for the Lord.

One of our problems is that we have more rights than we realize. We want to complain that kids can't open the Bible in school or courts can't display the Ten Commandments...but I wish there was a way to accurately assess how many people actually EXERCISE their rights to open the Bible in their own homes and pray with their families, while they still can. We're so quick to fight for what we're losing...and I agree we should fight to keep God's Word open in our country--whatever country we live in...but what good is it when we don't take advantage of the rights we already have?

I know I'm guilty. I'm not going to lie. I have my devotions and I'm closer to the Lord today than I have been in many years, but my time with the Lord measured is still pretty pitiful.

As for the list, I don't know who judged the churches or how they got on the list, but lists mean nothing, really. They're men's decision on what they believe to be the best. We can get so caught up trying to get the credit that we deserve for what we do in church and for the Lord...but in reality, I don't want the credit I really deserve. I don't know if I want to be punished THAT much.

The Lord knows our lives and we should be holding our measuring stick up to Him...not another man.

I did get a kick out of the list when I scrolled down and saw the pastor at Mars Hill Church. I'm not sure if your monitors are like mine, but compared to the red faces, there's that one green face sticking out in the bunch. I know it's just the way the images were individually optimized, but it just hit me funny. Nothing to do with the subject, I realize; but I got a tickle out of it and thought I'd share.

 

Please remember that this list has nothing to do with faithfulness of a pastor or size of a church. It has to do with churches that have INFLUENCED others. It is not a list of "great pastors and churches whose influence is effective but less wide spread." God keeps that list.

But let's not disparage those that God has chosen to have widespread influence in their ministries. Big does not always mean better, but neither does big mean shallow or watered down.

These churches listed have widespread influence. That is why they made the list. That does not make them any more "right" or "spiritual" and neither does it make them "wrong" or "less spiritual". The body is composed of churches of all sizes. These are ones God has chosen to give widespread influence. Praise God. I hope He raises up many more pastors and churches whose influence will impact far beyond their local surroundings.

 

Influence certainly seems to be the measuring stick on this list. My question would then be...was the "influence" of any REAL value?

The Crystal Cathedral certainly has had its share of influence hasn't it? It has "influenced" perhaps many thousands to think Christianity is all about "feel good positive thinking". Is this a good thing?
I trow not.

I would say that many (if not most) of these super duper churches' influence has had a negative impact on our society's perceptions as to what Christianity is all about. But that is just my opinion.

I agree with shannon and gregory...what the church needs (especially the western churches) is a good dose of real persecution. Perhaps we would truly see some REAL influence then.

It was once said that the seed of the church was in the blood of the martyrs. How true that was. These days, the seed of the church seems to be "entertainment".

In HIS service;
Jim

 

Maybe some of the guys on Baptist Board can get together and publish a list of "the real 50 most influential churches" or they can just continue to sit back and take pot shots at those others put on their list.

 

I would agree with that as well. Except I don't think the 'church' you have in mind will be persecuted. But those Christians who refuse to compromise will be and it's just around the corner, IMHO. And it could be this 'church' that you have in mind will participate in the persecuting - I think it has already started as I mentioned in the other thread.

Most of the influential leaders mentioned in the article are not full blown heretics, like Schuller, for example. But many of them have incorporated the values of present culture into their faith to some degree for pragmatic reasons. That is to say, they have compromised with the world for the sake of success (as if man had the ability to save anybody). The question is, to what extent?

Probably every conservative church of the 20th century compromised something even if they were mostly tiny and peripheral things. But the wholesale compromise we see today in many cases eats down to the very roots of the faith, the very seed that you mentioned above. Some on this list have completely sold out, some are on the borderline heading south, others are flirting with danger and a few stand firm. Has anyone noticed how difficult it is to find a church that's faithful? Especially in a large metro area? I've no doubt we are asleep at the wheel.

One thing we would probably agree on: The extent to which a church has fallen away is in direct proportion to the extent that it has fallen away from, or compromised, the Word.

 

Can you provide examples of what you are talking about here? These are intense accusations without evidence: compromise for success, fallen away from or compromised the Word, church in parenthesis (as if they are not the true church), incorporated the world's values for pragmatic reasons, trusting in man's ability to save people, wholesale compromise that threatens the faith itself, churches that are unfaithful, pastors who have sold out. These are offensive accusations and need support.

 

Bill Hybels has admitted to doing much of that at Willow Creek over the years. His book about Willow Creek detais some of the times when he wrestled with some of these issues and some times when he realized he compromised in order to draw a crowd.

 

We left our last church because the pastor was more concerned in impressing fellow pastors than he was in winning others to Christ. In fact, the people had to meet a certain criterea in order to be "worthy" of the membership of the church. Would he let them be members if they didn't measure up? You bet...but he treated them like trash until they left.

I began a book on it, but my hard drive crashed and everything on it was lost, including the manuscript. I didn't begin it to put down the church (or at least I didn't think I did), but to open the eyes of pastors. I wasn't even going to name the church or pastor...and I was going to write it under a different name. The Lord had different plans, and I haven't had the nerve to start a new one.

My husband and I have agreed from the beginning that if we couldn't respect our pastor, we needed to leave. When looking for a new church, we listened close to what the people said about the pastor when he wasn't in the room. Pastors should NEVER be placed on a pedistal...ever. But, if the members are making jokes about him, the pastor doesn't seem to be placing the Lord on the top of his to-do list. There's a lot more to it than that. But a church should not be a glorified social club that only focuses on the rich in the community and snubs people if they're missing a tooth or wear white shoes in December.

I don't recognize any of the churches on the list. I'm certainly not in position to decide who's worthy to pastor a church and which churches are worthy of God's blessings. I do know what I like in a church and what type of church I want to be a member of. I know what type of pastor I want my kids to look up to...it's certainly not one who never shows up for work days and treats those who do as trash.

I can't say enough how much we love the church we attend now. The pastor and co-pastor wives are very polite to the members...they actually talk to us. They're very sweet people. The pastor/co-pastor are very friendly. I haven't heard them say an unkind word about anyone. In fact the entire church is friendly. I don't want to get too close to them...I might find out they have a sin nature.

It's not important how we feel about other churches...large or small. What's important is how we feel about our own and how useful we ARE in our own churches. If we can't get along to the point where we are not helpful to the ministry, we need to find a church we can effectively serve the Lord in.

BTW, neither of the churches-past or present-contain members who visit this board. If they did visit, I would have kept quiet on these issues.

 

All about grace,

I forget the guy's name up at Southern who just did the study on how SBC churches aren't baptizing anymore people today than they were in the 50's. Is it Jim Eliff or Tom Eliff he is a preacher who gets around the SBC. He just completed a research project on the church rolls of SBC churches. I believe it was something like less than 5% of SB church attenders come back on Sunday night. There were some other stats as well. I don't have a problem with big churches in general. I also understand that this list was based on the word influence alone. Not whether or not it was a good or bad influence. But the fact of the matter is alot of those churches pride themselves in not preaching on divisive subject matter such as cetain social ills or sins.
Not all on the list were bad. I enjoy reading some of John Piper's stuff. I'm definitly not a calvinist but the guy is a Bible preacher. There were some who didn't make the list like David Jeremiah or John Mac. Their ministries are sound. They also pastor large churches.
My parents attend Biltmore Baptist in Asheville NC. they run 5000. The pastor is a Bible preacher. Yet you won't get 200 back on Sunday night. Alot of big churches are transfer growth. Some arent yet alot are. Even RW will agree with that. I know I skipped around a little but you get my point. If you got 5000 coming out on Sunday morning and less than 5% coming out on Sunday night do you think those same folk are going to be regular attenders if it meant they might go to jail for attending. Or lose their jobs etc... I highly doubt it.
Right now in America its COOL to be spiritual. No matter what that spirit might be.
BTW we have some of these mega churches to thank for birthing the Emerging Church movement. IT is really cool. They have that new "ebb and flow" theology. Since we last posted on the RW thing a month or so ago I have read Brian Mcclaren's book a generous orthodoxy. It makes me want to puke. That movement is going to direct alot of young people right into hell.

 

SL,

I have trouble following what you are trying to say here.

The "guy's name" is Thom Rainer. His study had nothing to do with church size or influence. On average, most SBC churches are very small.

I am not sure what Sunday night attendance has to do with this discussion. We have no Sunday night service, so where do we fit in the equation?

Sunday night attendance has little to do with spiritual depth. I can't remember the last time I went to church on Sunday night, but I believe I am ready and willing to suffer any amount of persecution my faith generates.

Actually the Emerging Church movement is the polar opposite of the "mega" church movement. I am glad you have read McClaren's book. Your opinion of it is noted.

 

I suppose I was just rambling a little but my main point is this. Where is the evidence of the influence of these 50 churches? . I like to go on Sunday nights. Its surely not going to hurt one's spiritual life to meet twice on Sunday. I just used that as an example to say that if the average church joe finds it hard to fit two to three hours of corporate worship into their schedule do you think thats a positive indicator of dedicated service to the Lord?

BTW, why don't you have a Sunday night service?
Do you have cell groups instead?

I heard a very lame excuse one time for not having a evening service. The pastor said "We take time off in the summer to give families more time together.

There is nothing more healthy for a family than being in church together. I think it would be more benefical for that pastor to tell his folk to give up some of the frivolous, extra activites that can swallow up people's time. In today's culture it seems the family needs more time in church not less.

I know Sunday night service is historically recent. So is Sunday morning bible study or Sunday school which ever you choose to call it. Why not do away with it too?

I'am always amazed by our american culture. We are so caught up in ourselves and our own plans we just can't muster up the energy to attend Suday night service or Sunday morning Bible Study.
Yet, in Africa and other poor countries, where they don't have so many other "important" places to be they will sit for hours at a time in some hut or shabby building to hear the Word simply preached.

Well, we have just grown to sophisticated for such stuff here in the states. Why, we need to get to the lake and try out that new boat. Or we gotta watch the late NFL game. You get my point.
What is worse than that is we have preachers who think that its cool to foster this casual approach in serving the Lord. Here in the states christians have not been taught from the pulpit how to sacrifice of themselves for the Lord out of gratitude. No, they have been given what they want. Which is how can the church give me everything I need and still let me keep MY schedule. Mega churches have bent over backwards trying to do this. The Bible does use the analogy of soldiers when referring to the Christian life.
In this country the average christian has no since of duty when it comes to service. They want to serve they just don't want to be inconvenienced.

BTW, the Emerging Church is just an indictment on the Church Growth Movement. I mean all these 20 something individuals didn't find what they were looking for in high tech,everything a youth group could imagine church? It wasn't a shallow experience they came away with now was it?

 

It's not the size of the church or the popularity of the Pastor or if influential and wealthy people are members. The location of the church or if it is built with the most expensive materials, with huge glass spires designed by the best achitect in the world or how many members it has. Some churches have a drive to boost membership, but don't go any farther than that. They need to be in the Word and the Great Commission.

 

Interesting website.

 

SaggyWoman,

I noticed your from NC. (otherwise known as the promised land). I grew up just north of Asheville, NC. I have lived in Winston - Salem, Raleigh and Roanoake Rapids, NC. Are you a native Carolinian?

 

I think we spend way too much time, here in the Christian community in the US, trying to figure out who is who, based on American standards of success which largely come from our capitalistic, corporate culture. Big churches that gather large crowds in worship services are impressive, and give the appearance of being models of success in our culture.

When I see big congregations like that, I have to wonder what the attraction is. Is authentic worship the real attraction? Authentic worship is hard work. The purpose of authentic worship is to please God, who is the audience, by coming into his presence spiritually, and offering yourself to him in humility, accepting the grace that comes from him to make what you offer him acceptable in his presence. It is not measured by what you got out of the experience, or how you felt when it was over, or whether you were pleased by the entertainment value of the music or the sermon.

What I heard Saturday night at Lakewood Church in Houston, time and time again, was how great a preacher Joel Osteen is, or "I like the music... I like the style of worship...I like what Joel preaches..." It was all about being entertained and pleased, about the congregation having a good time in church and being happy when it was over. In that whole two hour service, which was mostly the church patting itself on the back for how great it has become, and how right it must be because it has grown so large, I heard absolutely nothing about being part of a worship service which would intentionally lead people to humble themselves before almighty God, submit to his authority, and give him the honor and glory he deserves to receive from us. No element of that worship service led me to that point.

I guess I still have a lot of Quaker belief left. I spent many, many hours growing up sitting in a Quaker meeting house, in a circle, as the congregation waited on the spirit of God to move among his people and speak to us in response to our humble submission and giving of ourselves. It was hard work, and on many occasions, there were long, uncomfortable silences. More often than not, I left not with a sense of having "gotten something out of it," or having "enjoyed" the service, but with a sense of conviction, or disappointment that I was distracted, or a clear understanding of how powerful God is and how great his grace must be to bridge the gap between his character and mine. There were also times that I left in genuine humility, because I recognized God's presence in worship, sensed the movement of his spirit, and heard him speak through the words of his servants who were his willing vessels. We did not have great singers, there were no instruments to accompany the music, and most of the congregation were simple people who did not have great oratory skill, but when they were open to be used by God as instruments of his will, let me tell you, that was powerful stuff!

I look at our little Baptist church today, a congregation of about 120 people. We have no great singers, no great orators, and feel blessed that we have two faithful members who can play the piano and one guitarist. We don't have enough of a budget to have a paid staff. By the world's standards, we are far from being successful or influential. But when we gather for worship, we try to remove all the distractions and focus on God as our audience and our goal is to humble ourselves before the Lord, worship him by giving him praise, honor and glory from our own hearts, and wait patiently for him to bless us with his presence. Christian entertainment is no subsitute for the real presence of God.

 

Sorry, double post.