629 reasons why I'm a Calvinist

You just might have to explain this one relative to "election". Because, IN CONTEXT, it does not carry that meaning except, that what is not of God, God will destroy, and Jesus is speaking of the Pharisees whom he calls blind guides. Why are the Pharisees called that by God? because they are not teaching the people God's ways, but their own!

 

Whetstone, why don't you get a life, instead of posting all this complete nonsense here?

 

Did you write the New Testament Word of God?
Are you writing it now?
Did you build the Church of Jesus Christ?
Are you adding to it now?

We are the ones Jesus describes in John 17:20 "I pray not only for these (the ELECT) but also for those who through their teaching will come to believe in me." It was the Apostles of God who were elected, and not us!

OUR belief comes to us because of the teachings of the ELECT of GOD, those chosen for their roles from before the foundation of the world! It is by our believing their teachings, and subsequently, ourselves becoming disciples of Christ, that we become elect of God through our FAITH in GOD.

God established before the foundation of the world that by and through our faith in His Son, we too would enjoy the benefit of everlasting life, but we get ours through the teachings of GOD's ELECT the Apostles! NO we were not individually elected from before the foundation of the world to believe! We were not individually regenerated as an act of election, there is no scripture that makes that statement, and indeed there are only three instances of "regeneration" in the whole of the bible, with two of those fully indicating faith first then regeneration.

Your key role in the Christ's Church is first to do the work of God which is You believing in his Only begotten Son Jesus, to believe that Jesus is the Son of God, the Christ. Then, You are to tell others, so that they too can come to believe in Jesus as you do, and not merely the dogma of a sect of religion. Then you are to KEEP THE FAITH BABY! so that when the birds come along, they don't pluck your faith away from you seed by seed. And when the heat sets in, your taproot is in contact with the living water so that you do not wither away, and when the cares of life (the weeds)invade your space, Your faith in God will not be choked out. You are to produce the fruit of the spirit because your spirit has been renewed through faith. That is your role in the Christ's church and in God's redemption plan.

 

So you're a Calvinist regarding the apostles, but not regarding all believers since them? </font>[/QUOTE]No, I'm a Christian pointing out error of your theology. There is no such thing as "general election" that you believe in.

Why don't you stick with what I posted, and stop diverting to what you might perceive that I am.

 

So wes you say the Apostles are the elect of God then who was Paul writting too when he said

Col. 3:12
Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;

Titus 1:1 Paul, a bondservant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God’s elect and the acknowledgment of the truth which accords with godliness,

And Peter when he said:

1 Peter 1:2 elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.

Need I post more?
Where these passages written to the Apostles since in your opinion the Apostles are the only ones who are elcet?

 

I heard different theories before. That Israel was the elect of God. Or Jesus was the elect of God. With both...we are grafted in. Just what I heard.

 

Hmm "Why I am Arminian"

Free will

Gen 2:16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25 Gen 3:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24
...
...
NT
Matt 1:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10
...
Rev 22:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Pay attention to what I wrote! AND stop limiting my belief to one single post on one single topic! Of Course the Apostles are not the only elect! HOWEVER, in Matt 13:1-17, the Apostles are the only ones out of all who are mentioned there, who are the elect, for your purported purpose of supporting your false doctrine of the elect....which Matthew 13:17 DOES NOT DO!

I said,

Who are the ELECT in Matthew 13:1-17? The Apostles, (KEY PLAYERS IN GOD's PLAN). The supporting evidence? It is Jesus who declares the Apostles are the ELECT of God.

Paul in his letters to the Colossians and to Titus recognized that whoever comes to faith in the Christ becomes elect of God in the Christ through that faith, and not by some mystical regeneration preceding that faith.

Peter is speaking of believers, who are of course the Elect of God through their faith in Christ Jesus. Jesus, the Lamb of God from the foundation of the world, and Faith in God, established as the Criteria for Salvation from before the foundation of the world. Therefore all who have such faith are elected because they possess what God looks for in man!

 

Let's try again, since you failed last time. Where did Paul give any indication that they became the elect through faith? I see that no where in Scripture, and you have not been very helpful.

 

Let's try again, since you failed last time. Where did Paul give any indication that they became the elect through faith? I see that no where in Scripture, and you have not been very helpful. </font>[/QUOTE]Since you do not rightly divide the word of God, you wouldn't be able to correctly interpret what I do post, so what's the point?

 

Which means that the Bible doesn't say what you want it to say apart from your own little system? The point is that if you claim God said something, you should be able to show where God said it. If you can't, we have no choice but to assume that you are not saying what God said.

The truth is that you know as well as I do that the Bible never says that election is the result of faith. If it did, you would show it and so would many others before you who have made this claim. Even if you differ from me on what election is, you can at least be straightforward enough to say that it precedes faith.

 

Wes, wes, wes...

When are you going to show us some Scripture to back up your claim that "we become the elect of God through faith in God"?

Your excuse that thoes who disagree with you are unable to "rightly divide the word of truth" is rather lame.

 

Let's try again, since you failed last time. Where did Paul give any indication that they became the elect through faith? I see that no where in Scripture, and you have not been very helpful. </font>[/QUOTE]Since you do not rightly divide the word of God, you wouldn't be able to correctly interpret what I do post, so what's the point? </font>[/QUOTE]Larry asked for scripture I thought. if he won't listen, I will Wes. Which scriptures did you have in mind? </font>[/QUOTE]There is no scripture that specifically states that believers are "the elect". However, when you see the whole picture:

WHO RECEIVES EVERLASTING LIFE?
WHO IS SANCTIFIED?
WHO IS JUSTIFIED?

ONLY THOSE WHO HAVE FAITH! Therefore it is only those who have faith that are the Elect of God!

Of course one could say that the UNBELIEVERS are also the Elect, because God Elects them to the lake of fire! There are no other options than everlasting life, and the lake of fire.

You literalists who insist that "if it is not specifically stated in the scriptures it ain't so", never get a clue! And you remain subject to the teachings of man....which Calvinism is!

 

Which means that the Bible doesn't say what you want it to say apart from your own little system? The point is that if you claim God said something, you should be able to show where God said it. If you can't, we have no choice but to assume that you are not saying what God said.

The truth is that you know as well as I do that the Bible never says that election is the result of faith. If it did, you would show it and so would many others before you who have made this claim. Even if you differ from me on what election is, you can at least be straightforward enough to say that it precedes faith. </font>[/QUOTE]No Larry, I do not believe that election precedes faith, except in the case of the key players in God's plan of salvation. I do not think the Apostles had a choice in their election. They were "preconditioned" for service, the scriptures state that they were looking for the Messiah, and when called by Jesus, they dropped everything; livelyhood, family, friends and neighbors, etc., everything to follow Jesus knowing in their hearts that Jesus is the Messiah. They belonged to the Father who gave them to Jesus, for the purpose of building the Church of Jesus Christ.

I have never heard a testimony by anyone other than the Apostles, where the testifier says he/she was eagerly looking for salvation. In truth the doctrine that you hold to indeed says that man is not capable of doing so. How is it then that one can be 'elect' and not know it in the manner that the Apostles knew it and eagerly looked for their salvation?

As for the bible, you are a literalist, and cannot see the truth of scripture that is not in black and white. You do not "see" the truth with your spirit, only with your eyes! You fail to make the connections that the scriptures present. You fail to understand that in the Gospels when Jesus is speaking to His disciples, he is not speaking to the multitudes. ALL of Paul's letters were written to believers! Peter's and John's and Jude's letters were written to believers, and Hebrews was written to believers too! The Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and yes, even Acts, were written to all, and provide the basis of the Christian faith! For one to come to faith, one must hear the word of God and believe it! When one believes, his faith sanctifies (elects) him in God's eyes to Salvation. Jesus' atonement justifies us all because he paid our sin penalty ONCE, for ALL! Yes, all mankind is justified because all sin has been atoned. However, only those who are sanctified through faith pass from death into everlasting life. All others, lacking faith, are cast into the lake of fire, the second death.

 

Just did see my post in response to Larry!