629 reasons why I'm a Calvinist

Matthew 20:16 - How did you even come CLOSE to getting election out of that ?????

Matthew 20:16 "So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

IN context that verse comes at the end of the Parable of the workers in the vineyard. The story of how a man tried to hire people to work his vineyard and paid a low price. He needed more workers later in the day and paid a higher rate. The workers who got there early whined that it wasn't fair that they worked all day for a lower rate then the men who got there late. They complained (vs 12) "You have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat all the day."

13 "But he answered one of them, 'Friend, I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius?
14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the man who was hired last the same as I give you.
15 Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?
16 So the last will be first, and the first will be last.

I read that and I get, "God is generous with his mercy," "don't begrudge God's mercy to others," "don't whine that He offers his mercy freely to all."

You, apparently, read it ... very differently.

 

you go texas...you set them all straight. tell everyone what the bible really means.

 

Arthur,

Your sarcasim and rudeness say a great deal about your theology.

 

sorry tex.

just a little joke. i'm not in this debte...just reading

and i saw you pop in....

 

maybe i should add. Texas knows her Bible very well. We disagree on many things from a earlier debate. I saw her post and just wanted to kid her. one should not read into this that i have no respect for her. in fact i do respect her. we have talked for weeks and do know her theology and do respect her. I do not follow that line of thought. but.. I kid only...maybe in bad taste.

again..i'm sorry

 

No one who calls themselves Calvinist is locking themselves into the points of view of a man. I can't think of one Calvinist who agrees with Calvin's point of view on everything. However, those who call themselves Calvinist are acknowledging that that's the name commonly given to a certain view of how people are saved. Many believers have held that viewpoint throughout the history of the church--way before Calvin existed.

Good! But I've observed that many when putting themselves under a label other than Christian tend to gravitate to defending all aspects characteristic to the label. It is in some ways human nature and an unecessary leverage toward error, so I think it is wise to avoid labels as much as possible since it also tends to encourage division.

Absolutely, and every Calvinist firmly believes that what they believe about how people are saved is exactly what Christ taught.

Good to hear!

But your humble opinion isn't what counts, is it? What counts is what scripture says, and scripture says that certain people were elected from the beginning for salvation, and that God justifies and glorifies all those he predestines.

Easy now. We do have opinions about interpretations about scripture which should be assumed, but anyway. I do not disagree with that as I said God does chose some people for the good. I agree, He does that.

Huh? All sinners are condemned to hell by God already. It's that already condemned status that people are saved from.

I understand that. I do not disagree with that.

I thought Christians should be "locked into the teachings of Christ". Where does Christ say any of this? That God chooses not to know the ultimate end of individual humans? That God does all he can to save every single person?

I believe it is the nature of God's love. He does everything He can because He loves us, it is that simple. Not every tittle and thing is plainly present in scripture. The Holy Spirit still reveals many things.

And the Calvinist view of election is not choosing people to go to hell. It's choosing people for salvation out of all those all ready condemned sinners. </font>[/QUOTE]Ok, I agree with that and I evidently have misunderstood their belief on the last point. Thanks for the response.

 

Might help if you actually read the rest of the verse.

"For many are called but few chosen." </font>[/QUOTE]well brother...i know you do not know my veiws. i hold strong many things calvin said. (ask my good friend TexasSky how strong i hold them) i would agree with many things you have posted.

having said that. this one verse does not teach this. the greek will not up-hold this meaning. the best you can do with this is say it shows a picture of the chosen.

but on the other hand..you do not need this one verse there are many more to use.

i'm sorry..i said i was not in this one...i'll say no more..

 

Whetstone - Do you really want me to make 629 posts on this forum?

 

I don't consider myself a Calvinist. I simply believe that the Doctrine of the Sovereign Grace of God in the Salvation of His Elect is the only correct interpretation of Scripture.

 

Sonjeo,

Did God do as much to bring everyone to salvation as he did to bring Paul to salvation? Does everyone who never comes to faith get their equivalent of a Damascus road experience?

 

TexasSky,

Absolutely. And who is it who prepares the soil of our hearts? Who is it who prepares hearts to receive the word?

he Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. (Acts 16:14)

And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. (Ezekial 36:26)

Predestination does not say God makes anyone unclean.

This parable actually makes the point that as long as no one receives LESS than they deserve, it is perfectly just for God to give some BETTER than they deserve. That's one of the objections some have to the concept of election: It's unfair (or unjust) for God to give some people better than they deserve if he doesn't give everyone better than they deserve.

 

Did God do as much to bring everyone to salvation as he did to bring Paul to salvation? Does everyone who never comes to faith get their equivalent of a Damascus road experience? </font>[/QUOTE]Not everybody responds to the same kind of experience as another. A Damascus Road type of experience may have not worked with some. There are people so hardened that even empirical evidence will not escape their rationalization out. God recognizes when a heart is hardened beyond repair and knows when anymore effort will not yield fruit, but Pauls had not. It is up to each person to decide and God knew Pauls heart had not hardened beyond repair so He approached Paul the way He did.

 

1. No, I mean that God continued to pursue Paul because He knew Pauls heart had not hardened.

2. I should have said reprobate mind but the point is, hardened beyond retreival.

 

ok thanks sonjeo,

i make no point. I just wanted to understand your post.

again..thanks

in christ...james