70 weeks described in Dan. 11

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

EE:
" the Tribulation period, Daniel's 70th 'Seven' (or week)."

GE
Yes, the 'tribulation' of our Lord for sin!

EE:
"The 70th week of Daniel is about Jews, not Gentiles."

GE
The 70th week of Daniel is about Jesus, not Gentiles.

The whole prophecy is about Him and He is the full and only fulfillment of it ---Jesus Christ incarnated, killed and raised to life. On 'doomsday' for the Jews, their 'Great Day of Atonement' signalled the end of the time God alotted them as a nation. One can read it in Acts 13 from verse 14 on.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Then why don't you say what you want to say that ordinary humans like me can understand you. Talking in riddles just confuses! Then 'all Isarael' is not, Israel to the flesh - Jews - but spiritual Israel --Gentiles (or erstwhile Gentiles) with here and there a few Jews to make up the number!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

antiaging:
"The gap is only separating the last week of 7 years. There is no gap between the first 7 weeks and the 62 weeks. The 69 weeks lead right up to the first coming of Messiah and the timing is correct to match it to Jesus Christ.
....
When Christ returns, at the end of the 70th week, after the fulness of the gentiles is brought in, you will have the fullfillment of the 9:24, on the nation of Israel. Dan.9:24 deals with Israel as a nation, "thy people"."

'slicing and dicing' I read I think BobRyan aptly remarked!

What greater nonsense could simply be assumed then used for proof of itself!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Visit/s to the Grave and their time/s

Deleted - I meant it for a new thread.

 

[Ed Edwards]

I must make an apology which I was not asked to make; I saw my mistake myself. I misunderstood Ed Edwards for saying Christ did the abomination of desolation. I was wrong.
...

Thank you. You are a worthy Elder & Brother !! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Bob said
I also did not miss the fact that the single 490 year timeline is given as "70 sevens" (490 years) AND ALSO as

7-7's
62-7s
1 - 7

So that those who insist on "inserting AS YET undefined segments of time totalling 1000's of years" into each segement -- would be denying both the first coming .




The text says "in the MIDST of the week" not "in the exact mathematical middle".

The probems with the "slice and dice" method some attempt to use on this one prophecy -- are myriad.

Antiaging
The gap is only separating the last week of 7 years. There is no gap between the first 7 weeks and the 62 weeks. The 69 weeks lead right up to the first coming of Messiah and the timing is correct to match it to Jesus Christ.

The single timeline of 490 years is shown to have 3 identifiable segments making up the entire contiguous 490 year timeline.

As you rightly point out -- nobody "feels the need" to insert an "as yet unspecified gap of time more then 2000 years long -- and counting" BETWEEN the first and second segments.... between the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks. But a few DO feel the need to push the "Messianic week" as far from the Messiah as possible -- even if iit means inserting an "as yet Unspecified gap of more then 2000 years".

The fact that the city is rebuilt in those 49 years is pretty clear from the Gospels. And the 434 years of the 62 weeks - follows the 49 years seamlessly leaving the entire timeline intact.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

24 "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,

490 years. 70x7’s (not 3 timelines with (‘as yet undefined’)gaps of 1000’s of years inserted between them)

to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

The Messiah Made the Atoning Sacrifice on the cross (1John 2:2 NIV)
The Jews filled up the measure of their guilt (Matt 23, 1Thess 2)
The Heavenly Holy Place was anointed (Heb 9)

25 "So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks

The first 49 years for the rebuilding of Jerusalem under Medes and Persians

and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

Then comes the 62 weeks (434 years no gaps) taking us to the end of 483 years – the start of the Messiah’s ministry (the anointing of Christ)


26 "Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing

The Messiah is cut off “in the midst of the week” not at exact 3.5 year center-point from His baptism but in the MIDST of the 7 years.
Is 53:8 He was “cut off from among the living”

Vs 26 continued
, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

Rome destroys Israel – 70 AD after the 490 years complete.

27 "And He will make a firm covenant with the many for one week[/b
HE (the Messiah) makes firm (strengthen) His “New Covenant” for that one remaining week.
Matt 26:28 “this is my blood of the Covenant”
Mal 3:1Messenger of the Covenant
Acts 1:8 Post Cross disciples sent only to “the lost sheep of Israel”

Vs 27 Continued
but in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;

But in the midst of that seven years his atoning sacrifice ends all sacrifices and animal offerings according to
Heb 10:1,4,8,9-14 “takes away the first to establish the second.
Heb 8:13

Vs 27 continued:
and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Rome then desolates Israel – with significant damage done after the completion of the 490 year timeline.

 

[Ed Edwards]

From BobRyan's post about Daniel 9;:27:
// ...
but in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;
... //

I've never found a capital 'H' on 'He' here indicating that the Diety is mentioned. Show me where you found it. Thank you.

Daniel 9:27 (The Message):
Then for one seven, he will forge many and strong alliances, but halfway through the seven he will banish worship and prayers. At the place of worship, a desecrating obscenity will be set up and remain until finally the desecrator himself is decisively destroyed.

Daniel 9:27 (NLT = New Living Translation):
He will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. Then as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the end that has been decreed is poured out on this defiler."

I can't see Jesus doing 'desecrating obscenities' or 'setting up sacrilegious object's. Jesus does NOT do the AoD = Abomination of Desolation.

 

[BobRyan]

From BobRyan's post about Daniel 9;:27:
// ...
but in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;
... //

I've never found a capital 'H' on 'He' here indicating that the Diety is mentioned. Show me where you found it. Thank you.

The capital is found in the Septuagint!!:laugh: :laugh: "You're welcome"

I can't believe you are looking for that!!

(It is a neat trick though -- for those who do not understand the process of translation):thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

27 "And He will make a firm covenant with the many for one week[/b
HE (the Messiah) makes firm (strengthen) His “New Covenant” for that one remaining week.
Matt 26:28 “this is my blood of the Covenant”
Mal 3:1Messenger of the Covenant
Acts 1:8 Post Cross disciples sent only to “the lost sheep of Israel”

Vs 27 Continued
but in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;

But in the midst of that seven years his atoning sacrifice ends all sacrifices and animal offerings according to
Heb 10:1,4,8,9-14 “takes away the first to establish the second.
Heb 8:13

Vs 27 continued:
and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

Rome then desolates Israel – with significant damage done after the completion of the 490 year timeline.

Christ says to them of that future 70 AD destruction "behold your house is left unto desolate" Matt 23:38.

Ed said
I can't see Jesus doing 'desecrating obscenities' or 'setting up sacrilegious object's. Jesus does NOT do the AoD = Abomination of Desolation.

Me either - fortunately the text shows what I have stated above.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

The capital is found in the Septuagint!!:laugh: :laugh: "You're welcome"

I can't believe you are looking for that!!

(It is a neat trick though -- for those who do not understand the process of translation):thumbs:

Have your fun. (I must admit, you GOT me Bob -- Tee Hee) But I've found others (like Ms Riplinger) misquoting the Bible -- so I check Scriptures & many quotations. I found a couple of Septuagint on-line interlinears. They both are written in Greek with no caps. Neither uses 'he' nor 'He' in their English part but 'my'. This implies that the interlinear translators believed that it was Jesus on whose behalf Daniel was speaking.

Of course, to find that out, I had to read things like the langauges of Daniel (and the addition to Daniel in the Apo. One theory is that Daniel wrote the parts in Caldee and the later part was written during the time of the Macbees.

http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/daniel.htm

It seems that the books of Maccabees interprets Daniel as being fulfilled in the times of Antiochus Epiphanes. Compare Daniel 9:27, 11:31 with I Maccabees 1:54.

1 Maccabees 1:54-56 (KJV1611 Edition):
Now the fifteenth day of the moneth Casleu, in the hundreth fourtie and fift yeere, they set vp the abomination of desolation vpon the Altar, and builded idole altars throughout the cities of Iuda, on euery side:
55 And burnt incense at the doores of their houses, and in the streetes.
56 And when they had rent in pieces the bookes of the Lawe which they found, they burnt them with fire.

Luke 21:20

It seems clear that Luke understands the "abomination of Desolation" in Daniel 9:27 to be the Romans surrounding Jerusalem, and then capturing Jerusalem. This happened in 70 AD.

Luke 21:20 (KJV1611 Edition):
And when yee shall see Hierusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

The comentarry for Daniel 9:27 in the Geneva Bible, 1560 Edition, suggest the Seventh Day Adventist/Reformed understanding of the Prophecy as well. (just cause you guys are loosing the debate & obviously need help. At least I don't withold points that might be in your favor. Even if you all could prove that 'he' is Messiah in Daniel 9:27 -- I'd raise the point of DOUBLE FULLFILLMENT :godisgood: )

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

From BobRyan's post about Daniel 9;:27:
// ...
but in the middle of the week He will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;
... //

I've never found a capital 'H' on 'He' here indicating that the Diety is mentioned. Show me where you found it. Thank you.

Daniel 9:27 (The Message):
Then for one seven, he will forge many and strong alliances, but halfway through the seven he will banish worship and prayers. At the place of worship, a desecrating obscenity will be set up and remain until finally the desecrator himself is decisively destroyed.

Daniel 9:27 (NLT = New Living Translation):
He will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. Then as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the end that has been decreed is poured out on this defiler."

I can't see Jesus doing 'desecrating obscenities' or 'setting up sacrilegious object's. Jesus does NOT do the AoD = Abomination of Desolation.

GE

Dear Ed Edwards,
It's the 'translations' you use. They are rubbish! They are 'translations' not of the Scriptures, but of their translators' obnoxious ideas.

 

[BobRyan]

Have your fun. (I must admit, you GOT me Bob -- Tee Hee) But I've found others (like Ms Riplinger) misquoting the Bible -- so I check Scriptures & many quotations. I found a couple of Septuagint on-line interlinears. They both are written in Greek with no caps.

1. Please show contrast between Greek upper case and lower case. Pick Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Lambda for example. I don't think it makes sense to speak of upper lower case with Greek - there is only one. In any case if you want to call it "all lower case" that is fine - it still does not support the capital "He" argument - agreed?

One theory is that Daniel wrote the parts in Caldee and the later part was written during the time of the Macbees.

http://www.bibleandscience.com/bible/books/daniel.htm

Daniel wrote during the 7th century BC. The Maccabean revolt is in the 2nd century BC which is AFTER Greece and around the time of the rise of Rome. Some non-believers like to put Daniel AFTER the time of Daniel since to "leave him where he is" would mean that he really was shown the future.

Luke 21:20 (KJV1611 Edition):
And when yee shall see Hierusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

The comentarry for Daniel 9:27 in the Geneva Bible, 1560 Edition, suggest the Seventh Day Adventist/Reformed understanding of the Prophecy as well.

And the Geneva Bible came about long before SDAs -- it would be hard to argue that they looked up an Adventist to get that connection between Christ's own words in Matt 24, Luke 21 and Dan 9 as Christ so clearly quoted Daniel in that case showing the event of abomination to be future to Christ's day -- they needed no SDA to point that out.

(just cause you guys are loosing the debate & obviously need help. At least I don't withold points that might be in your favor. Even if you all could prove that 'he' is Messiah in Daniel 9:27 -- I'd raise the point of DOUBLE FULLFILLMENT :godisgood: )

But in the context of exegesis - the primary application plus Christ's own statement in that regard - makes the one issue of abomination of desolation set outside the 490 years by explicit statement from Christ - no guesswork needed.

in Christ,

Bob