9/11 Revisited

[Covenanter]

I just have one question. With all the video cameras on the grounds of the Pentagon, why wasn't any video released of the plane hitting the building?

I heard that ALL the security system videos were confiscated & never released nor shown.

The plane was traveling at over 500 feet per second. A high quality security camera has a 1/10 of a second reaction time to send a frame of a picture. In that time the plane moved over 50 feet. All you see on the screen or on the video recording is a slight blur. The background still lingers for that same time so even the blur seems to be transparent and you can still see what is behind the object being recorded.

We live near Heathrow Airport, & our church is almost under the flight path. We see (& hear!) the planes as they approach, pass & pass on. A video doesn't just record the square-on view, but some would record the approach & passing so it would be very obvious in some videos what the plane was as it would be in view for several seconds even if they were flying at double the normal landing speed.

The still photo capture option on the video camera takes a still shot once every 1/2 second. In that time the plane moved forward 200 feet. A Boeing 757 is 155 feet long. You do the math. ......

Assuming the exposure time for a still shot is 1/50 seconds (you tell us the correct time) the plane will move 8 feet & would be clearly identifiable as a plane.

Remember the plane came in at ground level so would be recorded on a number of security systems.

 

[Rippon]

Boeing 757s, at that time, came equipped with Air Phones, seat back phones. Most of the calls were made with those seat back phones.

You are wrong TC. As I have said repeatedly --airfones were deactivated in Jan. of 2001 on 757s. Therefore no calls were made in that manner.

A few were made from cell phones, which work fine from airplanes.

All calls were made by cell phones.

Cell phones do not function at much above 3,000 feet --not to mention 30,000 feet.

All calls recorded were made on the ground.

Logic, man, logic. Use it.

 

[InTheLight]

I just have one question. With all the video cameras on the grounds of the Pentagon, why wasn't any video released of the plane hitting the building?

Eyewitnesses Accounts

Eric Bart's Pentagon Attack Eyewitness Account Compilation

French researcher Eric Bart posted on his website an extensive compilation of eyewitness accounts of the September 11th attack. The compilation, perhaps the most complete anywhere, is mirrored here. Eric's compilation is in two parts:

Eyewitness accounts
Press reports
Entries within each part are alphabetically sorted.

About 89--The amount of eye witnesses I gathered who stated they saw an object crash into the Pentagon. The vast majority of the still available ones.

At least 45--The amount of eye witnesses who reported seeing a plane and described it with words like: 'airliner', 'big', 'silver', 'roaring', etc.

At least 23--The amount of eye witnesses who specifically said they saw an American Airlines jet. In all cases a large jet.

At least 22--The amount of witnesses who reported the noise of the plane was very loud to deafening.

At least 17--The amount of eye witnesses who stated they saw a plane running down light poles when crossing the highways.

9-11 Research: Eyewitnesses Accounts

Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[FollowTheWay]

No, they were not impossible. Boeing 757s, at that time, came equipped with Air Phones, seat back phones. Most of the calls were made with those seat back phones. A few were made from cell phones, which work fine from airplanes. The "no cell phone" rule is about electronic interference, not about the phones not working while the plane is in the air. In fact the FAA no longer prohibits cell phone use while the plane is in the air. It leaves it up to the individual airline. Modern cell phones are no longer incompatible with electronic navigation equipment. And haven't been since the 1990s.

I'm not talking about the phones in the seat backs. Only cellphones. Cell Phones do not "work fine" within airplanes. There are 2 reasons why cellphone calls can't be made from aircraft. The first is the transmission power of cell towers is limited so frequencies can be reused in non-adjacent cells. Also the signal is directed along the ground where the customers are, not up in the air where they aren't. They other problem is cellphone calls are handed off from one cell site to the next for a call made from a car for instance. An aircraft flying at altitude at perhaps 600 mph would significantly confuse the network in terms of making there hand-offs. The use of newly developed on-board systems which would provide the capability to make calls from an aircraft was ruled out by an FCC decision last year. If cell phone calls could be placed without this new technology why would it have been developed? The answer is they could not.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...A1.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGXeg9PhGullYd2YVhzEh-CWdou8w

If adopted, the new rules could give airlines the ability to install an onboard wireless access system that
would provide the connection between passenger’s wireless devices and commercial wireless networks,
much like Wi-Fi service is provided today aboard aircraft to provide connections to the Internet and
safely manage connections.

The technical question before the Commission is whether mobile devices operated on an aircraft
with an onboard wireless access system (and operated subject to appropriate technical limits) would
cause interference to terrestrial networks.

 

[FollowTheWay]

They were made on airphones. I talked on them all the time in flight back in that era.

Some were made on airphones and some were made on cellphones (supposedly).

Point PC-4: Cell Phone Calls from the Planes: The Second Official Account | Consensus 911

 

[Covenanter]

What was the cost of the 9/11 enquiry compared with the Lewinski enquiry?

 

[InTheLight]

We live near Heathrow Airport, & our church is almost under the flight path. We see (& hear!) the planes as they approach, pass & pass on. A video doesn't just record the square-on view, but some would record the approach & passing so it would be very obvious in some videos what the plane was as it would be in view for several seconds even if they were flying at double the normal landing speed.

The US does not have as many cameras in public areas as in the UK, not even close. Especially in 2001.

Security cameras, if they were any in the area, were not pointed into empty air space. The Pentagon is a huge complex bordered by an interstate highway and other highways. There are vast swaths of open areas surrounding the building and the grounds of the Pentagon. Arlington National cemetery is adjacent to the Pentagon. Ya think they have security cameras installed there?

The plane approached at a steep angle and then quickly leveled out at ground level for the last half mile. There simply weren't security cameras in place to capture the event, and even if there were, there was perhaps only 5 seconds or less the plane could possibly have been caught by a camera, and even so it would be lucky to get a clear image of it considering the speed it was flying. TCassidy has already pointed this out but I will add that it's likely the plane was traveling faster than 300 mph, more like 500 mph, making it near impossible for a security camera to catch it.

Assuming the exposure time for a still shot is 1/50 seconds (you tell us the correct time) the plane will move 8 feet & would be clearly identifiable as a plane.

Security cameras in 2001 were low resolution and were not recording in typical frame rates of 30 frames per second. They probably were running at 5 fps or even less. If there were any cameras in the flight path they would be traffic cams pointed at the roadways and not open sky.

A plane moving at 300 mph is traveling 440 feet per second. A camera running at 5 frames per second takes has the possibly of glimpsing 88 feet of some object in each frame. A Boeing 757 is 155 feet long so the best the camera could do would be to get two frame grabs of the plane, if anything at all. Again, I doubt traffic cams shoot video at that fast of a frame rate.

Consider that the plane was described at traveling 530 mph when it flew past the Naval Annex Building. That is 777 feet per second. That means a camera running at 5 fps would have the possibly of capturing in one frame grab an object of 155 feet long, EXACTLY the length of a 757 jet. In other words you wouldn't be able to see it.

Remember the plane came in at ground level so would be recorded on a number of security systems.

According to eyewitness and radar it came in at ground level for the final half mile or so. And it's extremely doubtful there was a number of security cameras in place.



Sent from my Motorola Droid Turbo.

 

[asterisktom]

Logic, man, logic. Use it.

Forget it. You're talking to the man who thinks the (alleged) plane turned into "almost liquid" when it went into the Pentagon.

 

[TCassidy]

You are wrong TC. As I have said repeatedly --airfones were deactivated in Jan. of 2001 on 757s. Therefore no calls were made in that manner.

John Hotard, AAL Corporate Communications, "engineers at our primary Maintenance & Engineering base in Tulsa tell me that they cannot find any record that the 757 aircraft flown into the Pentagon on 9/11 had had its seatback phones deactivated by that date." “It is our contention that the seatback phones on Flight 77 were working because there is no entry in that aircraft's records to indicate when the phones were disconnected.”

 

[TCassidy]

I'm suspecting Tom is in fact a party to the conspiracy. What other explanation could there be?

I told you not to tell!

 

[TCassidy]

I heard that ALL the security system videos were confiscated & never released nor shown.

I heard the towers were shot down by lasers from outer space.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

More importantly, where are 77's passengers and crew?

John Hotard, AAL Corporate Communications, "engineers at our primary Maintenance & Engineering base in Tulsa tell me that they cannot find any record that the 757 aircraft flown into the Pentagon on 9/11 had had its seatback phones deactivated by that date." “It is our contention that the seatback phones on Flight 77 were working because there is no entry in that aircraft's records to indicate when the phones were disconnected.”

 

[asterisktom]

More importantly, where are 77's passengers and crew?

Good question. There are two quantities unaccounted for in the Shanksville event. They both, coincidentally, have the amount of 7000: 7000 pounds of organic material (passengers and crew) and 7000 gallons of fuel that,the plane had. Very scant remains were found, which I believe were planted. And the soil was not at all cobtaminated.

 

[TCassidy]

Good question.

First of all, Flight 77 is the 757 that hit the Pentagon.

Army troops from Fort Belvoir were the first teams to survey the interior of the crash site and noted the presence of human remains.

Kevin Rimrodt, a Navy photographer surveying the Navy Command Center after the attacks, remarked that "there were so many bodies, I'd almost step on them. So I'd have to really take care to look backwards as I'm backing up in the dark, looking with a flashlight, making sure I'm not stepping on somebody".

Remains that were recovered from the Pentagon were photographed, and turned over to the Armed Forces Medical Examiner office, located at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The medical examiner's office was able to identify remains belonging to 179 of the victims. Investigators eventually identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the attack.

 

[asterisktom]

First of all, Flight 77 is the 757 that hit the Pentagon.

Army troops from Fort Belvoir were the first teams to survey the interior of the crash site and noted the presence of human remains.

Kevin Rimrodt, a Navy photographer surveying the Navy Command Center after the attacks, remarked that "there were so many bodies, I'd almost step on them. So I'd have to really take care to look backwards as I'm backing up in the dark, looking with a flashlight, making sure I'm not stepping on somebody".

Remains that were recovered from the Pentagon were photographed, and turned over to the Armed Forces Medical Examiner office, located at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. The medical examiner's office was able to identify remains belonging to 179 of the victims. Investigators eventually identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the attack.

My bad. I confused the numbers. But let me just redirect my intended questions to the Shanksville event. My questions remain.

 

[TCassidy]

Shanksville

Want to talk about flight 93? Fine.

Flight 93 fragmented violently upon impact. Most of the aircraft wreckage was found near the impact crater.

All human remains were found within a 70-acre (28 ha) area surrounding the impact point.

Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was part of a backbone.

Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg), or eight percent of the total.

The rest of the remains were consumed by the impact.

Investigators identified four victims by September 22 and eleven by September 24.

They identified another by September 29.

Thirty-four passengers were identified by October 27.

All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21. Human remains were so fragmented that investigators could not determine whether any victims were dead before the plane crashed. Death certificates for the 40 victims listed the cause of death as homicide and listed the cause of death for the four hijackers as suicide.

The remains and personal effects of the victims were returned to the families.

 

[asterisktom]

Want to talk about flight 93? Fine.

Flight 93 fragmented violently upon impact. Most of the aircraft wreckage was found near the impact crater.

All human remains were found within a 70-acre (28 ha) area surrounding the impact point.

Somerset County Coroner Wally Miller was involved in the investigation and identification of the remains. In examining the wreckage, the only human body part he could see was part of a backbone.

Miller later found and identified 1,500 pieces of human remains totaling about 600 pounds (272 kg), or eight percent of the total.

The rest of the remains were consumed by the impact.

Investigators identified four victims by September 22 and eleven by September 24.

They identified another by September 29.

Thirty-four passengers were identified by October 27.

All the people on board the flight were identified by December 21. Human remains were so fragmented that investigators could not determine whether any victims were dead before the plane crashed. Death certificates for the 40 victims listed the cause of death as homicide and listed the cause of death for the four hijackers as suicide.

So we have two coroners with conflicting reports. The one I who,was an early responder In fact all of the ones I,quote were from early in

The remains and personal effects of the victims were returned to the families.

"This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no bodies, and no noise."
- Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

"I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal. There was nothing."
- Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

"I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form, look like a plane crash."
- Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset barracks
of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]

So we have two coroners with conflicting reports. The one I who quoted was an early responder In fact all of the ones I quote were from early on. It is not surprising to me, that it might be to you, that our government would get their own evidence handlers on the scene .

And no mention on the fuel. Or the fact that the soil was uncontaminated .

Here is the source for the quotes:
Shanksville, Pennsylvania, on 9/11: The Mysterious Plane Crash Site Without a Plane

 

[rsr]

I heard the towers were shot down by lasers from outer space.

Nothing in this post is true.

The weapons were in fact secret prototypes of plasma guns built by the NSA to shoot down alien vehicles.

 

[TCassidy]

Nothing in this post is true.

Nothing in this post is true. Including the fact that nothing in this post is true.

 

[TCassidy]

"This crash was different. There was no wreckage, no bodies, and no noise."
- Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller [1]

So how did they ID the bodies?

"I was looking for anything that said tail, wing, plane, metal. There was nothing."
- Photographer Scott Spangler [2]

He was expecting it to say "Tail" on it? LOL!

"I was amazed because it did not, in any way, shape, or form, look like a plane crash."
- Patrick Madigan, commander of the Somerset barracks
of the Pennsylvania State Police [3]

And this cop is an expert on plane crashes why?