99.9% of all Catholics Going to Hell

DHK, where do any of the articles which you have linked to this thread show that these aboriginals were unrepentant at the time that they were baptized?

Where do any of your sources state that any of these aboriginals had no desire or reason to be a part of the Catholic Church when they were baptised?

Where do any of your articles say that these aboriginals did not want anything to do with Christianity when they were baptised?

I'll help you with the answers, DHK.

They don't say any of those things.

 

Slander is a sin, DHK.

 

Slander is a sin, DHK. </font>[/QUOTE]That is not slander. It is the truth, a logical outcome of your own theology. The Bible consistently teaches that one must have faith in order to be saved. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." But going absolutely contrary to the teaching of the Bible the Catholic Church sprinkles "magic" water on the infant, and in some "magical" way this infant (without belief) becomes born again. That is your belief. It comes out of a wrong exegesis of John 3:5, which you interpret the word "water" to mean baptism. And then you apply the whole born again experience to infants. That is absolutely ludicrous and unbiblical. Water cannot save. Water does not become salvic by some priests blessing. Water does not have any magical power to save. You are the ones who have given water magical powers, by your own false system of theology. It is not a false accusation or slander. It is the truth.
DHK

 

DHK:

So how many are have become Baptist if the work is so fruitful from your own church?
What you are saying seems to contradict the Baptist website I presented to you:

The members of your church that live with the Crees are not living also among pagans? Do they listen to “pagan drum beats” Or, do they not tolerate “pagan customs” ? You say they organize a local Church there. Does the church have a name I can check out. Are they training up Native American pastors who can carry on the work? Can I look at a missionary website or call the Reservation about it?

How do they deal with getting the Native culture which you call “pagan” out of them, while they live among them on the Reservation? Or don't they. How come there doesn’t seem to be any indication of a fruitful independent Baptist presence or witness over the centuries with the Indians here? Why is the track record so poor?


God Bless

 

DHK, where do any of the articles which you have linked to this thread show that these aboriginals were unrepentant at the time that they were baptized?

Where do any of your sources state that any of these aboriginals had no desire or reason to be a part of the Catholic Church when they were baptised?

Where do any of your articles say that these aboriginals did not want anything to do with Christianity when they were baptised?

I'll help you with the answers, DHK.

They don't say any of those things. </font>[/QUOTE]Try reading through some of these apologies, directed to the Aboriginal people (specifically living around Lac Ste Anne), some of which are from the Pope himself:
I quote:

It seems apparent that even the Pope was forced to ask forgiveness on the part of the Oblates who had "shown contempt for their culture and religious tradition." The magical waters of baptism didn't work, did it. Only a real genuine heart of repentance will avoid such horrid situations as to what happened with the Oblates and the aboriginals. Take a look for yourself:


CHURCH APOLOGIES

DHK

 

DHK: The first article you posted discussed the "abuse" charges, most were about "ear pulling", and "corporal punishment" of unruly kids in schools, correcting their language skills, not "respecting their native culture", which you seem to think is the way to go. Most seem to be about political correctness and it said most were dismissed because of no merit.

Yes, the Pope has apologized for the sins of Catholics who have brought the gospel to the world. I thought all men sin. Don't we all have things to ask forgiveness for?


God Bless

[ July 23, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]

 

No, not all men are sexual perverts.
And no, no man has the right to practice pedophilia.

 

From your original article:

Not respecting the native culture is a crime in Canada. But, then again you know that, you live there. You would rather have it look like pedophia.


God Bless

 

At least the United Church was humble enough to detail and specify the crimes for which it was apologizing for. The Pope was to proud for that. The sins that were committed by the Oblates were of the same nature as the United Church.

DHK

 

First of all I wouldn't have posted this question... It doesn't bother me in the least and I'm of the Primitive Baptist brethren... Do we know the hearts and souls of those that hold to different beliefs than we do?... NO!... Yet we come on here and state that this person or group is hellbound!... Do we know for sure?... Anyone can boot me off here anytime they want to but this is my belief... There are many on here with doctrinal errors but doctrine does not save you eternally... Jesus Christ saves you and if he didn't then you are not saved!... But then I ask myself this question... Why would someone come on here and discuss the things of God if they didn't belong to him and his Son Jesus Christ?... Can anyone tell me?... What reason would they have to put up with this cyber rhetorical abuse and if they belonged to the devil and was on there way to hell they would be on another site talking about the father of all lies Satan!... But they are here!... Why?... You either believe in Jesus Christ or you don't... The sad thing is that if NOT for the grace and mercy of Jesus Christ... No matter what denomination you belonged to... What group label you wore... Or what you named and claimed as your doctrine and church... 100% of ALL Adams race would be hellbound without hope!... We are ALL children of God and it's about time we started acting like it!... Let's build each other up instead of tearing each other down!... Brother Glen

 

Your post says the apology was well received by the Indians, so no I do not buy it. It was mostly about corporal punishment, washing their mouths out with soap, mandatory haircuts, not allowing the Indians to speak in their native tongue in school, etc....the politically correct complaints against not respecting the native culture which is a crime in Canada.

So what about a name for that Baptist Church your church started on the Reservation? I would like to find out about it and how they deal with the native culture. How many Baptist members? You say it is fruitful.

God Bless

 

Bro. Glen

I completely agree with what you wrote. Anyone who would take the time to be here is no doubt seeking after spiritual food, an evidence to me at any rate, that they have been born again of the Spirit of God. If any kind of perfection in doctrine, thought or action is required, ain't NONE of us going to make it to the presence of our Saviour.

And no, this Baptist doesn't believe 99.9% of Catholics are going to eternal punishment.

Jeff Weaver
Also a Primitive Baptist type person

 

DHK: What you say is untrue. This is about “cultural abuse”, a crime in Canada____not pedophilia. You live there and you know this.

http://report.ca/archive/report/20021104/p33i021104f.html

ALBERTA is facing more than 4,000 claims of abuse in Indian residential schools. In the face of the legal nightmare--or, some would argue, legal dream--the province is undergoing a unique experiment: since early September, 50 test cases have been proceeding relentlessly, week after week, through pre-trial examinations for discovery. This process will establish precedents and a payout scale by which other cases may be resolved before reaching court; it will also extrapolate common issues that should go to trial. In the process, John Gill, Edmonton lawyer for the Roman Catholic Church, has discovered that at least some of the cases are obviously unfounded--in fact, under cross-examination, some of those claiming abuse at the schools admit they actually benefited.

His finding is particularly relevant in light of the decision in October by Canada's largest Native organization, the Assembly of First Nations, to throw its support behind a national class-action lawsuit seeking more than $12.5 billion in federal compensation, not only for every one of the 92,000 people still alive who attended residential schools, but also for members of their families. The lawsuit hopes to convince a judge of what the federal government has so far refused to accept: that all Indian students suffered "cultural abuse" in the schools. In a letter dated August 26, addressed to case-management judge Justice T.F. McMahon, Mr. Gill writes, "As a result of the discovery process, we are determining that the claims set out in the statement of claim and in plaintiff particulars are not necessarily substantiated by discovery evidence."

He cites, as an example, a 63-year-old claimant from the Saddle Lake band who attended Blue Quills residential school in St. Paul, Alta., from 1945 to 1954, from the age of seven to 16. Her statement of claim alleged that she suffered traumatic physical and emotional abuse in her first year there. Under cross-examination, the facts emerged, according to Mr. Gill's analysis filed in a court document: in Grade 1 she had been strapped by a Grey Nun in front of the class after she had hit some boys, and at another date her ear was pulled once after she pushed another girl.

Under her claim of "wrongful confinement," it emerged that, after her parents placed her in the school , they came for visits once a month as well as attending "open houses" during which they camped overnight. When her mother became ill in 1952, the daughter went home for two months to help. Regarding her complaint that she left Blue Quills without achieving a Grade 8 diploma, it emerged under cross-examination that she had left school to go into the Dominican Order, since she did not want, as family tradition held, to be married off. As for claims of injury to language and culture, discovery evidence established that her parents spoke some English at home, did not follow Native traditions and went to the Catholic Church as often as they could. She still knows her prayers in Cree and did some Native artwork at the school. Not only was she never punished for speaking Cree at the school, but the Oblate father taught her how to write in Cree, and some classes were taught in Cree. Moreover, she admitted, speaking English was a benefit to her upon leaving the school ... [/quote]

 

DHK: One of my best friends is a Jewish attorney who married a Navajo Indian woman. He decided to study Native American Studies and got his Masters degree in it and combined it with his Law degree.

In his education, he studied the Native American and the Catholic Church. From this he decided to convert from Judaism to Catholicism when he found out the truth, and the Holy Spirit instilled faith in His heart.

He is teaching Law and Native American Studies at Humbolt State College in California. He knows more about Native American history and the Catholic Church than I will ever know, and the truth brought him in and not out of the Church. He is proud to now raise his little half-Indian daughter as a Catholic.


God Bless

P.S.
I would like to contact the reservation regarding the fruitful church your church has started on the reservation. I like to study these things.

 

You can put whatever slant you want on it if you search the web hard enough. Is that the game Kathryn? Here is part of the Oblate's apology:

[QUOTE}We apologize for the part we played in the cultural, ethnic, linguistic and religious imperialism that was part of the European mentality and, in a particular way, for the instances of physical and sexual abuse that occurred in these schools. [/QUOTE]


Law Commission Report

The fact is that there was undeniable sexual abuse by the Oblates. This is not trivial stuff. Why do you make it out to be so? The problem with the Catholics is they fail to admit blame, and try to white-wash over every thing.
DHK

 

There is no denying that there was some incidences of sexual abuse but the cases were primarily “cultural abuse”. This is the full apology.

http://www.turtleisland.org/news/oblates.pdf

So do you have the name of the Baptist church on the reservation that your church started that is producing much fruit? Can I just contact the reservation itself and get the information? They would know about this church right?

What puzzles me is how your church is dealing with the culture problems in light of your attitude against their culture. Are they presenting the gospel in their native language? What about getting them to stop their Native music you call pagan? How does your couple live with them and not participate in the Native culture? I have asked these things from you several times but you don't answer my questions.


God Bless

 

You pick and choose what you want to say. Here is what the report really said.
[QUOTE"Abuse happens everywJohn Gill, Edmonton lawyer for the Roman Catholic Church, has discovered that at least some of the cases are obviously unfounded- here, not just in residential schools. People need to be healed and to forgive, period[/QUOTE]

SOME of the cases, not ALL of the cases had to do with petty things.
Then the real banger. To white-wash everything away. To sweep all crimes ever done under the rug, they say that these poor victims of crime, sexual abuse, etc. just need to forget about it all, and thnk about being healed and forgiving. What a farce? Let's not hold the criminal accountable for anything. Just forget about the crimes done to society and forgive all sins. Why have a justice systme at all. All criminals should go free. Empty the jails. Forgive all! Right??
DHK

 

DHK: I didn't pick and chose anything. I gave you the link to read it yourself. It was too long to post the whole thing.

What about the name of the church on the Reservation your church started? You say it is fruitful. I would like to learn more about how they handle the culture problems.


God Bless