A ? 4 Calvinists (II)

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You stand with a man who condoned the death of another person because he didn't believe like others thought he should? You stand with a murderer?

You are thick! Ive shown many times & even have testimony from a brother who sides with you on theology but studied Calvin that he had nothing to do with this (see the Calvin history forum), but you still feel the need to discredit & slander a fellow Christian. What is your problem?

If you havent read it.....

A very good friend of mine, who is also a member of the board just verified something for me about the criticisms waged at Calvin concerning the execution of Servitus.

" ... You are correct. Calvin did not want Servitus executed. The authorities did not heed Calvin's mercies. Calvin then asked if the execution could be done via beheading. Beheading was considered more respectful. It was also painless.

Calvin takes a lot of heat for the whole Servitus deal, but he shouldn't"

 

[Aaron]

You stand with a man who condoned the death of another person because he didn't believe like others thought he should? You stand with a murderer?

It is such a small thing to be judged of you. Would to God my faults were was trifling as Calvin's.

 

[Ron Wood]

Here are some clear revelations given to us in scripture about prayer:



Persistence (what you might call "arm twisting) apparently pays off.


There is a power, or result, that comes through prayer. Here is an example of the prayer of a righteous man being used to impact others:



Now, you can qualify these verses however you want, but the scripture itself doesn't provide such qualifications within the context, so I see no harm in taking them at their face value. Clearly the authors of these texts didn't have a problem with people walking away understanding that prayer is powerful and can be used to remove the judgement of God.

Start another thread on prayer and I will answer you.

 

[Robert Snow]

It is such a small thing to be judged of you. Would to God my faults were was trifling as Calvin's.

On this point I will agree. John Calvin's life on earth is over. He no longer faces any problems connected with the things he did here. I, on the other hand, still deal with the problems associated with this life.

BTW, I was just having a little fun at the expense of you Calvinists. Calvin's involvement in the death of Servitus is not a big deal. After all Servitus would be dead now regardless.

It is difficult to look at the times then and apply our modern day culture to their standards and practices. Different time and almost a different world.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

On this point I will agree. John Calvin's life on earth is over. He no longer faces any problems connected with the things he did here. I, on the other hand, still deal with the problems associated with this life.

BTW, I was just having a little fun at the expense of you Calvinists. Calvin's involvement in the death of Servitus is not a big deal. After all Servitus would be dead now regardless.

It is difficult to look at the times then and apply our modern day culture to their standards and practices. Different time and almost a different world.

Read Institutes & get a feel for the man.

 

[Robert Snow]

Read Institutes & get a feel for the man.

I have Institutes, but there is so much to read and with work, church and everything else, it is difficult to find the time. Maybe one day I will be able to at least read some of it.

 

[Rippon]

A Timeline

If I posted that Calvinism is a false Gospel, I would be edited and probably banned.

Well,you know that's not true at all.

Don't tell me that this board doesn't have one set of rules for the Calvinists and another for the non-cal!

I'm telling you exactly that because you have said:

12/25/09 : the false doctrine of Calvinism!

12/26/09 : Calvinism ...is false

12/30/09 : I don't hold to the false belief [of Calvinism]

12/30/09 : Calvinism is a false doctrine

1/25/10 : I was warned to be wary of this false doctrine...I hate this false doctrine and feel sorry for those who are enslaved by it.

1/25/10 : Calvinism is false doctrine

1/26/10 : like most Calvinists,you have made up your mind to believe this false doctrine

1/26/10 : the deception of Calvinism ..this false doctrine

1/26/10 : Calvinism is pure false doctrine

2/11/10 : the error of Calvinism and taught this false doctrine

3/4/10 : seeped in the false doctrine of Calvinism

8/28/10 : To argue with a Calvinist is futile...I just smile and enjoy watching them attempt to fit this false belief into the teaching of Scripture.

12/17/10 :when I first heard of the false doctrine,[Calvinism] I couldn't believe any sane person could possibly believe it.

12/17/10 :I will refrain from using "false doctrine" to describe Calvinism in the future.

1/04/11 : the false gospel of Calvinism!

1/27/11 : Calvinists...read into Scripture things that strengthen their view...The same thing applies to all false beliefs and errors in theology

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have Institutes, but there is so much to read and with work, church and everything else, it is difficult to find the time. Maybe one day I will be able to at least read some of it.

Multi Task....put it in the head!

 

[Rippon]

Read Institutes & get a feel for the man.

I think Robert needs somethimg more bite-sized. The Institutes are a little on the heavy-duty side of things for a newbie. I would suggest reading a selection of his letters. Or read some of his sermons -- I particularly like his Sermons On The Book Of Micah. His commentaries are excellent. But when you read his sermons he is so down-to-earth and speaks very clearly. He brings out biblical truth as a miner brings out gold.(Yeah,I just made that up.)

For under $10.00 you could pick up the The Golden Booklet of the True Christian Life. You would be shocked to discover that you will agree with him 90% or more of the time!

 

[Robert Snow]

Well,you know that's not true at all.



I'm telling you exactly that because you have said:

12/25/09 : the false doctrine of Calvinism!

12/26/09 : Calvinism ...is false

12/30/09 : I don't hold to the false belief [of Calvinism]

12/30/09 : Calvinism is a false doctrine

1/25/10 : I was warned to be wary of this false doctrine...I hate this false doctrine and feel sorry for those who are enslaved by it.

1/25/10 : Calvinism is false doctrine

1/26/10 : like most Calvinists,you have made up your mind to believe this false doctrine

1/26/10 : the deception of Calvinism ..this false doctrine

1/26/10 : Calvinism is pure false doctrine

2/11/10 : the error of Calvinism and taught this false doctrine

3/4/10 : seeped in the false doctrine of Calvinism

8/28/10 : To argue with a Calvinist is futile...I just smile and enjoy watching them attempt to fit this false belief into the teaching of Scripture.

12/17/10 :when I first heard of the false doctrine,[Calvinism] I couldn't believe any sane person could possibly believe it.

Point taken.

12/17/10 :I will refrain from using "false doctrine" to describe Calvinism in the future.

1/04/11 : the false gospel of Calvinism!

After 12/17/2010 I have only slipped and attributed the term "false" to Calvinism once. I have attempted to refrain from such language. I do however get upset when I am called a "free-willer" and belittled, and it is implied that I don't believe the Word of God.

1/27/11 : Calvinists...read into Scripture things that strengthen their view...The same thing applies to all false beliefs and errors in theology

I was not calling Calvinism a false belief. I was saying that just like beliefs that are heretical, like Jehovah's Witnesses, who read things into the bible to support their false doctrine, Calvinism reads things into the scripture to strengthen their understanding that us non-cals disagree with. It is a fine line, but I was not stating that Calvinism is a false doctrine.

Also, to view Calvinism as false, as I do Landmarkism for example doesn't mean that I view it the same as a false belief like Mormonism or any other cult. In my opinion, the falseness I find in Calvinism isn't at all the same as the falseness found in a cult. I consider Calvinists Christians whom I disagree with, not as I do cults who are not Christians at all.

 

[saturneptune]

Surprised that you would stoop to this.

But, understanding the times and the true character of Servetus and the implications of his actions, and having studied what really happened, I stand with Calvin.

Nothing stooping about it. Regardless of Servetus's character, it did not warrant the death penalty over a religious argument. If you think Mr Calvin was right, then what are you doing living in this country of religious freedom. There are plenty of oppressive and theocratic regimes all over the world. Live your beliefs. Also, I notice you are using freedom of expression for your posts. That would probably not be a good idea in the type of society you seem so fond of.

Speaking of stooping so low, I cannot believe you would defend such garbage, and unlike another poster said to you, I am not making a joke of it. Many people have fought for freedom and died for you to exercise the freedoms in this country. You use them, yet turn right around and defend a system that should be abhorrent to every bone in your body.

 

[Skandelon]

Start another thread on prayer and I will answer you.

No way, you scare me.

 

[Aaron]

Nothing stooping about it. Regardless of Servetus's character, it did not warrant the death penalty over a religious argument. If you think Mr Calvin was right, then what are you doing living in this country of religious freedom. There are plenty of oppressive and theocratic regimes all over the world. Live your beliefs. Also, I notice you are using freedom of expression for your posts. That would probably not be a good idea in the type of society you seem so fond of.

Speaking of stooping so low, I cannot believe you would defend such garbage, and unlike another poster said to you, I am not making a joke of it. Many people have fought for freedom and died for you to exercise the freedoms in this country. You use them, yet turn right around and defend a system that should be abhorrent to every bone in your body.

This shows you don't really know what Calvin did or didn't do.

 

[saturneptune]

This shows you don't really know what Calvin did or didn't do.

I've read plenty about the situation. They also hung "witches" in 1692. We do not do that in this country, but there are planes leaving every day to courntires that do.

 

[Ron Wood]

No way, you scare me.

I'll take that as a compliment.

 

[saturneptune]

No way, you scare me.

Good, score one for Ron Wood.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'll take that as a compliment.

you should in this instance.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nothing stooping about it. Regardless of Servetus's character, it did not warrant the death penalty over a religious argument. .

Saturn, this is exactly Calvin's argument. In fact he wanted a separation of church & state in Geneva so that he wouldn't have religious descenters killed by the state. Had he had his way, Geneva would not have been a theocracy. Besides, it wasn't a theocracy run by the church....it was run by the magistrates who controlled all, including death penalties.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Heaven now is a great 18 hole golf Course with few sand traps that I get on & play all day long. (Newark has traps....not all sand)

 

[Skandelon]

I'll take that as a compliment.

You should. It was meant to be a compliment. I just can't hang with you.