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A Baptist Views On Catholicism
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What is the Catholic understanding of baptism? | GotQuestions.org
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (or CCC), water baptism is the first sacrament and gives access to the other required sacraments. It is also the act that forgives sins, grants spiritual rebirth, and makes one a member of the church (CCC, 1213). The Catholic Church also believes that Jesus requires one’s baptism in order to receive eternal life.
Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical? | GotQuestions.org
“Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification” (taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia). The Roman Catholic Church teaches that while God gives grace to man without outward symbols (sacraments), He has also chosen to give grace to man through visible symbols. Because God has done this, man is foolish to not make use of this God-provided means of gaining sanctification.
What are indulgences and plenary indulgences, and are the concepts biblical? | GotQuestions.org
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, an indulgence is “the remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sin whose guilt has already been forgiven. A properly disposed member of the Christian faithful can obtain an indulgence under prescribed conditions through the help of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.
My conclusion is that the RCC puts man in control of God's attributes.
By performing sacraments, God is obligated to respond in a prescribed manner.
Bottom-line, it is a tool of Satan that appeals to the pride of man - that the individual is in control of his destiny.
[Gen 6:5 KJV] 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Charles Spurgeon’s Views on the Papacy
“Her idolatries are the scorn of reason and the abhorrence of faith! The iniquities of her practice and the enormities of her doctrine almost surpass belief! Popery is as much the masterpiece of Satan as the Gospel is the masterpiece of God! There can scarcely be imagined anything of devilish craftiness or Satanic wickedness which could be compared with her—she is unparalleled as the queen of iniquity.”
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (or CCC), water baptism is the first sacrament and gives access to the other required sacraments. It is also the act that forgives sins, grants spiritual rebirth, and makes one a member of the church (CCC, 1213). The Catholic Church also believes that Jesus requires one’s baptism in order to receive eternal life.
Are the seven Catholic sacraments biblical? | GotQuestions.org
“Sacraments are outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification” (taken from the Catholic Encyclopedia). The Roman Catholic Church teaches that while God gives grace to man without outward symbols (sacraments), He has also chosen to give grace to man through visible symbols. Because God has done this, man is foolish to not make use of this God-provided means of gaining sanctification.
What are indulgences and plenary indulgences, and are the concepts biblical? | GotQuestions.org
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, an indulgence is “the remission before God of the temporal punishment due to sin whose guilt has already been forgiven. A properly disposed member of the Christian faithful can obtain an indulgence under prescribed conditions through the help of the Church which, as the minister of redemption, dispenses and applies with authority the treasury of the satisfactions of Christ and the saints.
My conclusion is that the RCC puts man in control of God's attributes.
By performing sacraments, God is obligated to respond in a prescribed manner.
Bottom-line, it is a tool of Satan that appeals to the pride of man - that the individual is in control of his destiny.
[Gen 6:5 KJV] 5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man [was] great in the earth, and [that] every imagination of the thoughts of his heart [was] only evil continually.
Charles Spurgeon’s Views on the Papacy
“Her idolatries are the scorn of reason and the abhorrence of faith! The iniquities of her practice and the enormities of her doctrine almost surpass belief! Popery is as much the masterpiece of Satan as the Gospel is the masterpiece of God! There can scarcely be imagined anything of devilish craftiness or Satanic wickedness which could be compared with her—she is unparalleled as the queen of iniquity.”
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DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I find Catholicism to be very confusing. The way they do apologetics seems to be designed to deliberately be conciliatory to Baptists, and they seem to give the impression that they are moderating on many of the issues that divide. It's almost like they play a shell game. And I get that from watching the "Coming Home" type shows, the YouTube Apologists, and from talking to actual Catholics.
I also believe, and so do many Baptists, that there are indeed saved Roman Catholics. And I find them fellow travelers in political thought and cultural issues, often.
Armchair Apologist
Active Member
Your average Catholic "apologists" are deliberately deceitful and often are not even a good ambassador for the Roman Catholic Church.
I believe that there are a good number of Roman Catholics who are actually saved but I do not believe that any of these "apologists" would be among them as they would have to speak favorably of Dogmatic Roman Catholic teachings which are openly hostile towards the simplicity of faith in which our hope would rest!
I was a "Saved Roman Catholic" for about a year and a half after coming to faith in Christ. Prior to this, my mom would literally have to tie me down and force me to attend Mass but after coming to Christ, I was actually excited about going to Church and threw myself into the youth group (Catholic Youth Organization), started playing my guitar in the services, and actively contemplating whether I should consider the priesthood. I was very much a "Protestant" already but couldn't yet bring myself to admitting such pluys I was still living with parents who were devout Roman Catholic. I literally turned a deaf ear towards anything that contradicted what the "Radio Preachers" were saying (Prayers to Mary, Sacramentalism, Etc.) and was having the "Time of my Life" during my Senior year of High School! When I joined the Navy, I met up with the "Independent Baptists" who gave me the Chick tract: "Are Roman Catholics Christians?" and God pretty much gave me an ultimatum; that in order to remain a Roman Catholic, I would have to renounce the faith in Christ that I genuinely possessed! Perhaps these truly saved Roman Catholics are either willfully ignorant and turned a blind eye and deaf ear (as I had) and "cherry pick" what it is they actually believe and practice in the Roman Catholic Church? I would say that none of these are writers for the "Catholic Answers" publication!
Yet Spurgeon reserved for himself sole arbitership of scripture’s interpretation.
The magic of Protestantism is yields to a man all the sublime sweetness of his own opinion.
Interpretation of scripture is not an objective thing to him, scripture means what he says it means, and he will gather with and call fellow those of the same interpretation of scripture or at least tolerate his interpretation of scripture.
Or he forms a church of which he is the only member, Pope and council.
Fellowship of opinion. Traditions of men.
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Hey Joe,
I view them as a cult. I know severaval Christians, but their salvation has nothing to do with Catholic doctrine (it is despite that doctrine). The gospel is there, under all the trash and tradition. Most of these are now former Catholics.
I have several friends who are "Catholic", but it is more about tradition with them. I am not sure they are Christian.
But to answer your question, Catholic doctrine is a mixture of paganism, Jewish traditions and Christianity. It is exactly what one would expect of a pagan empire dictated Christianity as the official faith.
It is about interpretation Jon, we do follow different interpretations of scripture.
The Eucharist has nothing to do with paganism.
Catholics simply believe Jesus own words in scripture.
“ My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink “
We believe this. The Eucharist is Jesus Himself come to personally Commune with us and give us His Life and resurrection so that our bodies with be raised.
For us, Jesus isn’t just spirit but physical as well, receiving Jesus flesh and blood gives life to our flesh and blood unto resurrection.
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day “
We believe only Jesus is the resurrection and the life and that by eating His flesh and drinking His blood we have eternal life and our bodies will be raised on the last day.
So it’s very important to believe this.
Jesus words are required believing.
The Eucharist has nothing to do with paganism.
Catholics simply believe Jesus own words in scripture.
“ My flesh is real food and my blood is real drink “
We believe this. The Eucharist is Jesus Himself come to personally Commune with us and give us His Life and resurrection so that our bodies with be raised.
For us, Jesus isn’t just spirit but physical as well, receiving Jesus flesh and blood gives life to our flesh and blood unto resurrection.
“ He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood, has eternal life and I will raise him up on the last day “
We believe only Jesus is the resurrection and the life and that by eating His flesh and drinking His blood we have eternal life and our bodies will be raised on the last day.
So it’s very important to believe this.
Jesus words are required believing.
I was brought up in a Baptist family, came to Christ (repented of my sins and trusted Christ as my Savior and Lord) at the age of eleven and was taught that if something is Catholic it has to be wrong.
Liturgy is definately part of Catholic worship and so it was to be rejected as ritualistic and repetitive praying. As an evangelical I thought the symbolism and ritual of Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheran or any high church as devoid of meaning, empty rote, and mindless. Of course there have been cases or even tendencies at times for people to lose track of the meanings of their religious practices, and to do them without thinking about why they do them– but Baptists do this too– sometimes even with their prayers, devotions, church-going, etc. To say that all symbolic ritual in the Catholic church is rote and thoughtless ritualism is as uncharitable as someone saying that evangelicalism is legalistic unthoughtful literalism which practices bibliolatry with no concern for making a concrete difference in this world. But I digress!
I began a bible study in my church of the book of Hebrews and I saw just how important liturgy was for the covenant and that became increasingly evident to me as I studied the book of Hebrews. Also I found that overwhelming historical evidence exists proving it was important to the Early Church. I came to believe that liturgy represents the way God fathered his covenant people and He renewed that on a regular basis. It became evident to me as to what the relationship of the Old Testament was to the New and how the New Testament Church became a fulfillment and not an abandonment of the Old. These ideas were confirmed by the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Reading the ECF's, I began to believe that the Catholic Church might most accurately reflect the intentions of the Early Church Fathers and found other evangelicals seeking a church whose roots run deeper than the Reformation. However, I had always believed that people only leave the Catholic Church for 'True Christianity' and not the other way around. But, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life’s 2007 Religious Landscape Survey, roughly 8 percent of Catholics were raised in other churches as evangelicals. This compares with 9 percent of evangelical Christians who were raised Catholic. Not much difference.
As I continued to study I became aware that the one only place where Jesus used the word 'covenant' was when He instituted 'The Lord's Supper'. Yet, we only observed communion four times a year.
I began to study the Gospel of John and became aware that the Gospel was chock full of sacramental imagery. I was raised to believe that liturgy and sacraments were to be rejected and certainly not to be studied. These things I was programed not to be open to. But going through Hebrews I noticed the writer made me see that liturgy and sacraments were an essential part of God's family life. Then in John six, I came to realize that Jesus could not have been talking metaphorically when He taught us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. The Jews in His audience would not have been outraged and scandalized by a mere symbol. Besides, if the Jews had merely misunderstood Jesus to be speaking literally and He meant His words to be taken figuratively, why would he not simply clarify them? But He never did! Nor did any other Christian for over a thousand years!
Liturgy is definately part of Catholic worship and so it was to be rejected as ritualistic and repetitive praying. As an evangelical I thought the symbolism and ritual of Catholicism, Anglicanism, Lutheran or any high church as devoid of meaning, empty rote, and mindless. Of course there have been cases or even tendencies at times for people to lose track of the meanings of their religious practices, and to do them without thinking about why they do them– but Baptists do this too– sometimes even with their prayers, devotions, church-going, etc. To say that all symbolic ritual in the Catholic church is rote and thoughtless ritualism is as uncharitable as someone saying that evangelicalism is legalistic unthoughtful literalism which practices bibliolatry with no concern for making a concrete difference in this world. But I digress!
I began a bible study in my church of the book of Hebrews and I saw just how important liturgy was for the covenant and that became increasingly evident to me as I studied the book of Hebrews. Also I found that overwhelming historical evidence exists proving it was important to the Early Church. I came to believe that liturgy represents the way God fathered his covenant people and He renewed that on a regular basis. It became evident to me as to what the relationship of the Old Testament was to the New and how the New Testament Church became a fulfillment and not an abandonment of the Old. These ideas were confirmed by the writings of the Early Church Fathers. Reading the ECF's, I began to believe that the Catholic Church might most accurately reflect the intentions of the Early Church Fathers and found other evangelicals seeking a church whose roots run deeper than the Reformation. However, I had always believed that people only leave the Catholic Church for 'True Christianity' and not the other way around. But, according to the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life’s 2007 Religious Landscape Survey, roughly 8 percent of Catholics were raised in other churches as evangelicals. This compares with 9 percent of evangelical Christians who were raised Catholic. Not much difference.
As I continued to study I became aware that the one only place where Jesus used the word 'covenant' was when He instituted 'The Lord's Supper'. Yet, we only observed communion four times a year.
I began to study the Gospel of John and became aware that the Gospel was chock full of sacramental imagery. I was raised to believe that liturgy and sacraments were to be rejected and certainly not to be studied. These things I was programed not to be open to. But going through Hebrews I noticed the writer made me see that liturgy and sacraments were an essential part of God's family life. Then in John six, I came to realize that Jesus could not have been talking metaphorically when He taught us to eat His flesh and drink His blood. The Jews in His audience would not have been outraged and scandalized by a mere symbol. Besides, if the Jews had merely misunderstood Jesus to be speaking literally and He meant His words to be taken figuratively, why would he not simply clarify them? But He never did! Nor did any other Christian for over a thousand years!
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Walter,
I think too many Baptists (as well as many other Evangelicals have been taught that thinking - "i something is Catholic it has to be wrong"
That thinking is totally incorrect. Granted we do differ on many, many doctrines. But there are some things we do agree on.
I often use this example - "If we are witnessing to a Catholic do we have to prove to him that Jesus is God the Son?" I go on and state that, now we don't, as a Roman Catholic already believes that. Now compare that to a JW - who believes that Jesus is Gods Son - but not God the Son.
Now, those other things you are wrong on - well - no time now
Walter,
I think too many Baptists (as well as many other Evangelicals have been taught that thinking - "i something is Catholic it has to be wrong"
That thinking is totally incorrect. Granted we do differ on many, many doctrines. But there are some things we do agree on.
I often use this example - "If we are witnessing to a Catholic do we have to prove to him that Jesus is God the Son?" I go on and state that, now we don't, as a Roman Catholic already believes that. Now compare that to a JW - who believes that Jesus is Gods Son - but not God the Son.
Now, those other things you are wrong on - well - no time now
As far as Christology goes, I think we are in agreement.