A better question

[canadyjd]

Does putting the focus on believers “soul winning” rob God of His rightful glory in bringing salvation to all He chooses.

The biblical answer is Yes!! Anytime people are so arrogant to believe “soul winning” is up to them and not God, they are puffing themselves up as more important than God

Jesus stated He could cause the rocks to cry out.

God has privileged us to be a part of His reconciliation but make no mistake, all those He has chosen for salvation will be saved.

Salvation is a work of God from start to finish.

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

God chose to save everyone who believes. The gospel and salvation is for everyone. We cannot rob God. Further scripture states:
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

 

[canadyjd]

God chose to save everyone who believes. The gospel and salvation is for everyone. We cannot rob God. Further scripture states:
Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.”
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.
Rom 10:13 For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!”
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?”
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

I don’t disagree with scripture you posted. There are other passages that speak to the issue, as well.

1 Corinthians 12:3 says in part, “… no one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit”. The passages must be reconciled.

Does Paul mean, literally, that people are unable to mouth the words “Jesus is Lord” but by God Holy Spirit. That’s not what he is saying. Jesus stated plainly that “many” will call Him Lord but He will proclaim He never knew them and cast them out.

1 Corinthians 12:3 is confirmation that salvation occurs by the will of God Holy Spirit.

It is clear to me that to claim some folks won’t make it to heaven because Christians are not doing enough “soul winning” is dismissing the power and role of God in salvation and puffing up the role of men.

It is not so different from the Pharisees praying or giving alms in public for all to see. It is saying, “oh look at me!! I’m a better Christian than you because I do more ‘soul winning’ or I’m a better Christian than you because I believe in human free will….etc”

peace to you

 

[Revmitchell]

I don’t disagree with scripture you posted. There are other passages that speak to the issue, as well.

1 Corinthians 12:3 says in part, “… no one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit”. The passages must be reconciled.

Does Paul mean, literally, that people are unable to mouth the words “Jesus is Lord” but by God Holy Spirit. That’s not what he is saying. Jesus stated plainly that “many” will call Him Lord but He will proclaim He never knew them and cast them out.

1 Corinthians 12:3 is confirmation that salvation occurs by the will of God Holy Spirit.

It is clear to me that to claim some folks won’t make it to heaven because Christians are not doing enough “soul winning” is dismissing the power and role of God in salvation and puffing up the role of men.

It is not so different from the Pharisees praying or giving alms in public for all to see. It is saying, “oh look at me!! I’m a better Christian than you because I do more ‘soul winning’ or I’m a better Christian than you because I believe in human free will….etc”

peace to you

Honestly many of our reformed brothers and sisters ignore the role of scripture in the salvation process and prop up only the role of the HS in order to promote their errant doctrine on election.

Secondly I Corinthians 12:3 doesn't support the reformed version of election. It in fact doesn't say that they have either been pre chosen or are already regenerated. To hold to that position is rather eisegetical. We need to not read into scripture what it doesn't say.

What it does say is that the HS is working in those who claim Jesus is Lord.

 

[canadyjd]

Honestly many of our reformed brothers and sisters ignore the role of scripture in the salvation process and prop up only the role of the HS in order to promote their errant doctrine on election.

Secondly I Corinthians 12:3 doesn't support the reformed version of election. It in fact doesn't say that they have either been pre chosen or are already regenerated. To hold to that position is rather eisegetical. We need to not read into scripture what it doesn't say.

What it does say is that the HS is working in those who claim Jesus is Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:3 does not say anything about HS “working in those who claim Jesus is Lord.” That is eisegetical Please don’t read into scripture what it doesn’t say.

It says no one can say Just the Lord but by God Holy Spirit. If nothing else, the emphasis is on the indispensable role of God Holy Spirit in salvation.

That is not “propping up” the role of God Holy Spirit, it is simply recognizing the biblical truth that without God Holy Spirit, no one can say Jesus is Lord.

Paul also proclaims in 1 Corinthians 1 that God was “well pleased” through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

So, if we consider these two passages it is clear they compliment each other. The gospel is preached (it is the means by which God has chosen to bring salvation to those who believe) AND no one can say Jesus is Lord except by God Holy Spirit. As you stated, God Holy Spirit is working upon them… to convict of the truth of their own sinfulness, their need for a Savior and thst Jesus is that Savior (Who He is and what He has done)

The only question remaining, imo, does God Holy Spirit “work on” everyone that hears the gospel or only those chosen for salvation.

I believe scripture confirms the latter

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

It is clear to me that to claim some folks won’t make it to heaven because Christians are not doing enough “soul winning” is dismissing the power and role of God in salvation and puffing up the role of men.

Spot on!

It is not so different from the Pharisees praying or giving alms in public for all to see. It is saying, “oh look at me!! I’m a better Christian than you because I do more ‘soul winning’ or I’m a better Christian than you because I believe in human free will….etc”

2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses seat:
3 all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not.
4 Yea, they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men`s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with their finger. Mt 23

There could be no heavier burden laid upon us than the eternal destiny of others. Not even those Jews under the yoke of the law carried such a burden, and it's contrary to what Christ taught:

28 `Come unto me, all ye labouring and burdened ones, and I will give you rest,
29 take up my yoke upon you, and learn from me, because I am meek and humble in heart, and ye shall find rest to your souls,
30 for my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.` Mt 11

What a sweet release it was when I realized NNE was going to spend infinity in torment on account of anything I said or failed to say, or did or failed to do. WAAAAY above my pay grade.

 

[Dave G]

Amen.
When I realized, years ago ( through my studies in God's word ), the truth of election, I knew that I was free of the burden of "sharing my faith" so that it would "influence others for Christ".
It was then that I came to understand that the decision is on God to save, not as part of a process where I help to "impact the world for Christ" in the hope of others "seeing Christ in me and wanting it too".

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link;
Since the entire "chain" is built upon God and God alone, then there is no weak link.
Anyone who is saved is that way because of what God has done...

Not because of what I "helped" Him to do.

What a relief it's been now, these many years since I left the churches and teachings that I was once a part of, that I'm no longer under the burden to "win souls";
That is the Lord's domain, and the only way that I would be involved in it is for Him to do that work in and through me ( Philippians 2:13 ), should it be His will for me.

 

[canadyjd]

Spot on!…

There could be no heavier burden laid upon us than the eternal destiny of others. Not even those Jews under the yoke of the law carried such a burden, and it's contrary to what Christ taught:…

What a sweet release it was when I realized NNE was going to spend infinity in torment on account of anything I said or failed to say, or did or failed to do. WAAAAY above my pay grade.

Very profound. Thanks for sharing.

Quick story. Just after I came to Christ, I witnessed to a young man for about an hour, hour and a half. He wasn’t having any of it.

The next day I confessed to my pastor I felt like a failure. I’ll never forget what he said.

He said, “if you didn’t think this was all about you, you wouldn’t feel so bad”

It was like getting slapped in the face. I realized what he meant. God has privileged us to participate in the redemption of His people, but He is in charge.

As you said (and scripture confirms) it is not up to the man who wills or the man who runs, but in God who has mercy.

Again, thanks for sharing

peace to you

 

[Van]

Folks, note that Calvinism claims Paul did not engage in "soul winning." And note, God's word says Paul did. I kid you not.