None say that any sinner can say Jesus is their Lord apart from the Holy Spirit!
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A Biblical Defense of Synergism #2
- Thread starter Steven Yeadon
- Start date
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Their Lord ?.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
Amen, Dave.
" Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost." ( 1 Corinthians 12:3 ).
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Says every Charismatic.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
an unbeliever could say Jesus is Lord by the Holy Spirit.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
When a man says that, if he is an unsaved man, he is still led by the Holy Spirit. He’s not led by the devil to say that.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
When a man says that, if he is an unsaved man, he is still led by the Holy Spirit. He’s not led by the devil to say that.
I'd elaborate more to specifically state that the law cannot be kept in/by the flesh. Christ did keep the law in His Spirit and we too are walking in righteousness each time we walk in/by the Spirit.
Drawing from similar passages too, such as Gal 5:16-18, I'd also hold that sinful flesh is always against the Spirit and rebels against obeying and pleasing God.
If you could grant these as valid beliefs concerning our 'flesh', then we should be good for this part #2. What was your argument in part #1 again?
Can we differentiate between dead works and good works - the former are done by our flesh and the latter by God's Spirit in us. And though faith is termed a 'work' in the sense that it is an act that's committed (John 6:29), it is paradoxically the act that nullifies and denies all works of the flesh(denying self) but instead looks to the works of Christ alone being done in them.
In this sense, faith gives no room for boasting in the flesh (that which is denied), but instead boasting in the Lord alone.
IMHO here (In the following verse) is why C & A and all do not understand all has to be of God.
Romans 4:16,17 YLT Because of this it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, for the promise being sure to all the seed, not to that which is of the law only, but also to that which is of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all (according as it hath been written -- 'A father of many nations I have set thee,') before Him whom he did believe -- God, who is quickening the dead, and is calling the things that be not as being.
4:16 διὰ τοῦτο ἐκ πίστεως ἵνα κατὰ χάριν εἰς τὸ εἶναι βεβαίαν τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν παντὶ τῷ σπέρματι οὐ τῷ ἐκ τοῦ νόμου μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ τῷ ἐκ πίστεως Ἀβραάμ ὅς ἐστιν πατὴρ πάντων ἡμῶν
For now that in bold.
but also to the (one) out of faith (belief) of Abraham who is father of all of us
The faith of Abraham wasn't what he thought about something it was, the truth, he was told. That truth being, In thy seed (Singular) all the nations (kindred) of the earth will be blessed.
Remember, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The seed (singular) of Abraham (Christ) died without the nations, peoples of the earth being blessed. How can they be blessed if Christ be dead? Where is faith? See 1 Cor 15:17
Look at the last part of V 17
God, who is quickening the dead, and is calling the things that be not as being.
Christ, firstborn out of the dead ones Col 1:18 Rev 1:5 first-fruit (singular) Christ 1 Cor 15:23
Faith is what we hear about. Faith is, the truth, we have been told. The giving of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth is how we become of faith, of belief. It is how we and the nations / kindred shall be blessed and it comes to us through the obedience of the seed of Abraham and him being the firstborn out of the dead ones.
but also to the (one) out of faith (belief) of Abraham who is father of all of us - The seed (singular) of Abraham - Gal 3:29 YLT and if ye are of Christ (Of the faith of Abraham) then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise -- heirs.
That s how Abraham is the father of many nations.
Monergism/Synergism
Romans 4:16,17 YLT Because of this it is of faith, that it may be according to grace, for the promise being sure to all the seed, not to that which is of the law only, but also to that which is of the faith of Abraham, who is father of us all (according as it hath been written -- 'A father of many nations I have set thee,') before Him whom he did believe -- God, who is quickening the dead, and is calling the things that be not as being.
4:16 διὰ τοῦτο ἐκ πίστεως ἵνα κατὰ χάριν εἰς τὸ εἶναι βεβαίαν τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν παντὶ τῷ σπέρματι οὐ τῷ ἐκ τοῦ νόμου μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ τῷ ἐκ πίστεως Ἀβραάμ ὅς ἐστιν πατὴρ πάντων ἡμῶν
For now that in bold.
but also to the (one) out of faith (belief) of Abraham who is father of all of us
The faith of Abraham wasn't what he thought about something it was, the truth, he was told. That truth being, In thy seed (Singular) all the nations (kindred) of the earth will be blessed.
Remember, faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
The seed (singular) of Abraham (Christ) died without the nations, peoples of the earth being blessed. How can they be blessed if Christ be dead? Where is faith? See 1 Cor 15:17
Look at the last part of V 17
God, who is quickening the dead, and is calling the things that be not as being.
Christ, firstborn out of the dead ones Col 1:18 Rev 1:5 first-fruit (singular) Christ 1 Cor 15:23
Faith is what we hear about. Faith is, the truth, we have been told. The giving of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth is how we become of faith, of belief. It is how we and the nations / kindred shall be blessed and it comes to us through the obedience of the seed of Abraham and him being the firstborn out of the dead ones.
but also to the (one) out of faith (belief) of Abraham who is father of all of us - The seed (singular) of Abraham - Gal 3:29 YLT and if ye are of Christ (Of the faith of Abraham) then of Abraham ye are seed, and according to promise -- heirs.
That s how Abraham is the father of many nations.
Monergism/Synergism
And Romans 9:16 says the opposite!!! Salvation does not depend on those that "will" to be saved. Or on those working (runs) to earn salvation, but on God alone. And what is the work God requires of us? To believe in the one God sent!!!
The premise of "automatic salvation" when a person puts their faith in Christ is a fiction. We can think we have faith such as those of Matthew 7, yet not be saved. The second and third soils of Matthew 13 had faith to a degree, but it remained unaccredited by God, and therefore did not contribute to salvation.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
God knows when a person belives . So should the person . Its not like 'oh I think I was saved a minute ago , what's for dinner " Mathew 7 explains someone that Jesus never knew. simple .
Gal 4
8¶Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.
9But now , after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Monergism as Percho gave a link to Iconoclast post, is the work of Christ alone and it what saves one who is dead in trespasses and in sin... Ephesians 2:1... Synergism is for Disciples... Work out your (OWN) Salvation... Notice the word (OWN) it belongs to you... It doesn't tell you to work out some one elses, your own is your own concern... With fear and trembling, for it is God that worketh in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... As I heard one preacher say, pray and work it out... What if I don't, will I lose it?... It not yours to lose but you can lose the joy and benefits of it... Disciples/Sheep are NEVER cast away they are chastised.
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Btw... God chastises his blood bought children, he punishes the wicked... Brother Glen
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I believe we cannot lose / forfeit our salvation. Based on the sealing of the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption. After we believe .Monergism as Percho gave a link to Iconoclast post, is the work of Christ alone and it what saves one who is dead in trespasses and in sin... Ephesians 2:1... Synergism is for Disciples... Work out your (OWN) Salvation... Notice the word (OWN) it belongs to you... It doesn't tell you to work out some one elses, your own is your own concern... With fear and trembling, for it is God that worketh in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... As I heard one preacher say, pray and work it out... What if I don't, will I lose it?... It not yours to lose but you can lose the joy and benefits of it... Disciples/Sheep are NEVER cast away they are chastised.
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Btw... God chastises his blood bought children, he punishes the wicked... Brother Glen
Monergism as Percho gave a link to Iconoclast post, is the work of Christ alone and it what saves one who is dead in trespasses and in sin... Ephesians 2:1... Synergism is for Disciples... Work out your (OWN) Salvation... Notice the word (OWN) it belongs to you... It doesn't tell you to work out some one elses, your own is your own concern... With fear and trembling, for it is God that worketh in you both the will and the to do according to his own good pleasure... As I heard one preacher say, pray and work it out... What if I don't, will I lose it?... It not yours to lose but you can lose the joy and benefits of it... Disciples/Sheep are NEVER cast away they are chastised.
Hebrews 12:5 And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
12:10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
Btw... God chastises his blood bought children, he punishes the wicked... Brother Glen
I see this: -Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. Phil 2:12 - because this has been stated:- And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. V 11
very similar to this
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. (that is working out our own salvation) Rom 6:4 -because this has been stated - Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death V 3?
You have not done anything, God has, now react to what God has done.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Paul is simply saying that even his imprisonment / suffering/ persecution the furthering of the Gospel was still going on ,inspite of the seemingly outward obstacles. like wise Paul is saying you also work out your salvation for the furtherance of the Gospel .
Well Steven your right and you're wrong... I'm particular and that's for sure... Salvation is 100% Christ and no infringement of man whatsoever... There is a third person in the Godhead the Holy Spirit and his purpose is to regenerate all Gods children... OK once again, I'm a Old School/Old Line Sovereign Grace Primitive Baptist... Particular Baptist believe in T.U.L.I.P just like we do but we interpret some of the points a tad different... Doesn't change Salvation, they're Gods blood bought children just as we are, as are you all too... Why would you be here, if you weren't?... Brother Glen