A Birth Control Quiz

TheOliveBranch · Oct 28, 2003

When referring to Psalm 127: 1 - 5

1 Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman keeps awake in vain. 2 It is vain for you to rise up early, To retire late, To eat the bread of painful labors; For He gives to His beloved sleep. 3 Behold, children are a gift of the LORD, The fruit of the womb is a reward. 4 Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, So are the children of one's youth. 5 How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them; They will not be ashamed When they speak with their enemies in the gate

We need to remember that it is the LORD who builds the house. The LORD gives the gift of a child. When the LORD is in control, He will provide meat in the winter. We never have to worry about feeding the child that the LORD gives to us as a gift.

Also, the LORD will open and cose the womb. We also can see that the womb is fruitdul in the younger years, but only when the LORD allows. I personally wanted children for 6 years before the LORD blessed me with my first. He also has control over the later years, as pregnancy is not as prevalant for the older woman.

Blade · Oct 28, 2003

I haven't posted here in over 2 years; this topic ends that streak.

First, I am against abortion. It is murder. All forms of birth control are not, however.

The use of birth control (any of the previously mentioned methods as well as others not mentioned here) is not a black and white issue as some would paint it. There is no Biblical decree or example anywhere in scripture that addresses this subject directly. Obviously, they did not have the knowledge or resources we have today in Biblical times. All that can be said for certain is that children are to be cherished; however, this is not a mandate to everyone to have as many as biology will permit after marriage.

Carson:
You are quite wrong Diane. God tells Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply"...to Noah and Abraham and a couple others and it is to YOU

No, those commands were given to those people (that is why they are addressed by name). Each of those given by way of example were beginning a nation; it isn't a big surprise God should tell them to have a lot of children. But to draw a parallel between these people and their very unique situations and modern, middle-class Christians is absurd.

Carson:
Christians who condone artificial birth control are engaging in objectively grave sin irregardless of whether they themselves are culpable of sin due to their lack of knowledge.

No, Christians who condone artificial birth control (as opposed to "natural" birth control?) are engaging in what you subjectively call a grave sin. If you're going to argue that it is a sin to partake of the natural pleasures of sex while avoiding pregnancy, I see little difference in "artificial" or "natural" birth control; it is the intent that would or wouldn't be sin. Furthermore, the Bible never directly comments on contraception as a general practice. To say it is obectively sinful is to tout your own convictions with the same authority as scripture.

LaRae:
Unfortunately many women, while taking the pill, loose their children if they conceive...it's simply how the pill is designed to work, it causes abortion.

No, LaRae, it doesn't. The pill (taken as prescribed for contraception) does not cause abortion. Anecdotal accounts, like your sister's situation, prove nothing. As to the forms of contraception that actually disrupt a pregnancy after conception has occured, I can think of only one: the IUD. All others act by preventing conception altogether.

Finally, if it is God's will for a couple to have a child, contraceptives are no obstacle to Him. We became pregnant with our first child while using the pill. And, as others have pointed out, many try to conceive with much help, yet are barren.

One more thing, to call procedures such as vasectomy "mutilation" of one's body is assinine. Do you call it mutilation when Grandma has cataract surgery? How about a colectomy for colon cancer? I know that this is an imperfect analogy, but it should at least provoke a little thought rather than simply labeling modern medical interventions as "mutilation" because we disagree with their outcomes.

Eladar · Oct 28, 2003

Sauce for the goose.....I think the least you can do is show us one scripture that could be interperted to mean that contraception is moral. I want the explicit statement.

After you look adn see that no such statement is made, perhaps you will see that your beliefs are based on assumptions.

LaRae

How is this for the purpose of sex within the confines of marriage?

1 Corinthians 7:1-7 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

Paul says that people should get married so that they do not commit immoral acts, not to have children.

GraceSaves · Oct 28, 2003

Paul says that because of man's fallen state, not because that is how God intended it. How you use this as God's approval, I have no idea, since Paul says this is not how it should be, and certainly not the preferred manner. And no, marriage is not SOLELY for bearing children. Marriage is both unitive and procreative. It is not only one, but both.

GraceSaves · Oct 28, 2003

Something that I don't like about the "If God wants you to get pregnant, you will be, even if you use contraception" argument that I despise: That same line of reasoning can be used for abortion, becuase if God really wanted the child to live, couldn't he intervene and let the child live? Does this happen sometimes? Yes - I have met a woman who was "aborted" but lived through it. However, we are free creatures, and just as God allows us to make decisions that are evil (to abort) he can allow us to misuse the gifts of our sexuality and prevent life from occuring. We shouldn't continue to place an unnatural barrier betwen that sacred act simply because "God can intervene if he wants to." That doesn't make the practice moral, and is a terrible line of defense.

Eladar · Oct 28, 2003

Paul says that because of man's fallen state, not because that is how God intended it.

I don't expect Catholic's to agree with my belief. I was just asked to post scripture, so I did.

By the way, now I see the basic problem here. You believe we should strive for what God intended before the fall. Of course even this has limitations with you. I don't think you'd say we should walk around naked.

Marriage is both unitive and procreative. It is not only one, but both.

I simply quoted an explicit reason for mariatal sex that is found in the Bible.

thessalonian · Oct 28, 2003

"Paul says that people should get married so that they do not commit immoral acts, not to have children. "

It amazes me how dissenters of the truth set up dichotomies. Because Paul says to get married to avoid immorality (i.e. sex outside of marriage), does not put him in your camp of saying that contraception is just fine. But for people like you who don't believe no explanation will do and summersaults to twist and distort such verses in to pro-contraception, no matter how ridiculous they are are not beyond your human reasoning. Further you cannot even make the conclusion you are making because Paul knows full well about the birds and bees and contraceptives weren't even available at that time. The result of sex outside of marriage he knows full well would be children. And illegitimate children have a tough time. You cannot separate the act from the result. You cannot separate the act from the responsibility that it produces.

Blessings

Eladar · Oct 28, 2003

It amazes me how dissenters of the truth set up dichotomies. Because Paul says to get married to avoid immorality (i.e. sex outside of marriage), does not put him in your camp of saying that contraception is just fine.

I never said it did. I was asked to post scripture that could be used to support my position and so I did.

Blessings

Only God knows your heart on this statement.

Molly · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by thessalonian:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Molly:
I'm not sure about all this...we have 3,but I have not taken birth control pills. We had 2 rather close then 8 years later had our third(which we are very happy about!) We wanted more children at times and it just did not happen. I think we also gave into the world's mentality that 2 or 3 is enough and all we could afford,which is ridiculous....we could afford many children,we just thought we couldn't. Our thinking is different now and we wish we would have desired for more children when we were younger.(Not that I am too old) I'm 35.

I don't think BC(like the pill and such) is right,but I think some planning is okay,too.

When I think of a quiverfull,I do picture a lot of children...but,God designs all families to be different and I don't think we should look down on those who have less children. There is no ideal number. I think 5 or 6 is a good size family. I have friends with 2 or 3 and some with 8-10...they are all godly families. I do know some who may just have one or two and their attitude is that children are not a blessing,they are work. I would think that is not a godly attitude. So,it depends more on the attitude that on the # IMO. Also,some families may have 10 and hate every minute of it,instead of seeing the blessing from it. A large family sure does not mean anything.

We have 3 and desire for more and have wanted more,but we also see God has His plans for us. We do see our children as a blessing from God.

We are hoping to have more children or adopting internationally.(China)

Molly

Molly,

It is definitely wrong for anyone to look down on another who has fewer kids than they. I am not the judge and don't know why someone has x number of kids. Perhaps infertility. I know a woman who has had 7 miscarriages in trying to have 1 child. Finally got a boy and that is all she has been able to have. It would be wrong for me to in any way hurt her criticizing her for not having more children. Even if I didn't know her situation. The Lord sends children.

The biggest problem in saying I have enough kids is that we do not see how kids are a blessing. We do not see how they ironically help us to grow spiritually. The trials of raising kids are God's way of helping us to mature as Christians. Feeding, clothing, and caring for them is his way of giving each and every one of us who have children an opportunity to live the beatitudes. Parenting removes our selfishness of our single years. It gives us patience.

God bless. [/QUOTE]I agree with your statements.

Molly

LaRae · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by LaRae:
.I think the least you can do is show us one scripture that could be interperted to mean that contraception is moral. I want the explicit statement.

The one who does not provide for his own household is worse than an infidel (1 Tim 5:8). If you can't supporr them, then don't have them. That means contraception can be a part of God's plan. [/QUOTE]Nope sorry this is certainly not explicit. This is merely your interpertation ....trying to fit square pegs into round holes.

LaRae

LaRae · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by Blade:

LaRae:
Unfortunately many women, while taking the pill, loose their children if they conceive...it's simply how the pill is designed to work, it causes abortion.

No, LaRae, it doesn't. The pill (taken as prescribed for contraception) does not cause abortion. Anecdotal accounts, like your sister's situation, prove nothing. As to the forms of contraception that actually disrupt a pregnancy after conception has occured, I can think of only one: the IUD. All others act by preventing conception altogether.

You are flat out wrong. Go do the research, call a OBGYN or Planned Parenthood. The Pill absolutely DOES cause abortion.

The hormones in the pill cause the uterus lining to thicken....women do conceive while using the pill...when this happens the pill generally prevents the FERTILIZED egg (ie CHILD) from implanting on the uterine wall. Therefore the child is aborted.

I know exactly what I am talking about. I have done the research.

LaRae

LaRae · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by Eladar:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Sauce for the goose.....I think the least you can do is show us one scripture that could be interperted to mean that contraception is moral. I want the explicit statement.

After you look adn see that no such statement is made, perhaps you will see that your beliefs are based on assumptions.

LaRae

How is this for the purpose of sex within the confines of marriage?

1 Corinthians 7:1-7 Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.

Paul says that people should get married so that they do not commit immoral acts, not to have children.

[/QUOTE]God made it clear. Go forth and multiply. Marriage is a covenant beteween you your spouse and God. The purpose of marriage is to raise a family and be a help mate to each other.

LaRae

Eladar · Oct 28, 2003

God made it clear. Go forth and multiply.

That's Old Testament. Where do you find that command in the New Testament? As a matter of fact, you can find where that command is directly spoken against in the New Testament by the advice not to marry. As a matter of fact, the New Testament says it is better not to marry.

CatholicConvert · Oct 28, 2003

Well, here's my .02 on this hot issue.

I wish to publically state that any and all kinds of contraception is SIN.

Period.

I further wish to state that I have had a vasectomy. When I realized what I had done and how I sinned against God, I made that part of my general confession of sins before I entered into His Church.

We are supposed to be in the "image" of God. We are, as St. Athanasius declared "little gods," for we mirror our Father here on earth. That is the whole purpose of our being created -- to be sons and daughters of the Almighty and to be like Him. Adam and Eve fell from that journey and separated the human race from Him. Christ Jesus has reunited the human race to God and has given us the Church to mother us into the fullness of our inheritance -- Christlikeness.

(Interesting side note: The Early Fathers referred to the Church as "the womb of Heaven")

I am seriously considering having my vasectomy reversed. Not for the sake of children anymore, since it has been 17 years and I am probably infertile at this time due to the destruction of my body by the surgeoun's scalpel, but rather to show my mindset of complete and total surrender to God through the teachings of the Church which He put on earth.

And Pastor Larry....you are so wrong (about everything you have posted so far) it isn't even funny. Thank God he delivered me from sitting under people like you. I just wish He had done it earlier so I were still whole today.

Brother Ed

LaRae · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by Eladar:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />God made it clear. Go forth and multiply.

That's Old Testament. Where do you find that command in the New Testament? As a matter of fact, you can find where that command is directly spoken against in the New Testament by the advice not to marry. As a matter of fact, the New Testament says it is better not to marry. [/QUOTE]Perhaps your Bible has been edited. Jesus came to fullfill the law NOT to abolish it.

It's better not to marry, however there is NO prohibition against marrying if you can't live a life of celibacy.

If no one married or had children the human race would of died out some time ago.

LaRae

Eladar · Oct 28, 2003

It's better not to marry, however there is NO prohibition against marrying if you can't live a life of celibacy.

If no one married or had children the human race would of died out some time ago.

Yes, I know there is no prohibition against marriage. That is what the scripture I posted said. It also gave a reason for marriage. It wasn't to have children.

LaRae · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by Eladar:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> It's better not to marry, however there is NO prohibition against marrying if you can't live a life of celibacy.

If no one married or had children the human race would of died out some time ago.

Yes, I know there is no prohibition against marriage. That is what the scripture I posted said. It also gave a reason for marriage. It wasn't to have children. [/QUOTE]Just what do you think marriage is for? It is to raise up a family and companionship/helpmate to each other.

Children are a natural result of sex. You are trying to say that God created a union/situation where people would have to go against what they are designed to do.

LaRae

Eladar · Oct 28, 2003

Just what do you think marriage is for? It is to raise up a family and companionship/helpmate to each other.

Children are a natural result of sex. You are trying to say that God created a union/situation where people would have to go against what they are designed to do.

There are lots of people who get married and never have children through no choice of their own. Yes, children are a natural result of sex, but that does not mean they are the only reason. Nor does it mean that the only reason for marriage is to have a family.

It is Catholics who say this. It is not God.

Carson Weber · Oct 28, 2003

If children are a blessing and infertility is a curse, then why would one wish to impose infertility upon oneself and not have more children?

Children are a blessing: 1 Chr 26:4f; Ex 23:25f; Dt 7:13f
God exalts us by giving us children: 1 Chr 25:4f

The whole idea of explicitly prohibiting the creative result of the conjugal act runs against God's Word. It contradicts and disobeys God's command to be fruitful and multiply.

LaRae · Oct 28, 2003

Originally posted by Eladar:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Just what do you think marriage is for? It is to raise up a family and companionship/helpmate to each other.

Children are a natural result of sex. You are trying to say that God created a union/situation where people would have to go against what they are designed to do.

There are lots of people who get married and never have children through no choice of their own. Yes, children are a natural result of sex, but that does not mean they are the only reason. Nor does it mean that the only reason for marriage is to have a family.

It is Catholics who say this. It is not God. [/QUOTE]You are creating strawmen. I never said children were the ONLY reason.

Not having children due to a medical problem is one thing....choosing not to have them is another.

Children are a natural result, which God intended.

LaRae

A Birth Control Quiz

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