A case for Free Will through self-imposed limitations of the Sovereignty of God

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Rhetorician:
"Diggin',"

If a sinner really does have "free will" as you assert, then try this:

Take the most vile inner thought sin or vile outer habit you have (whatever it may be); THEN JUST STOP IT!!!

If you truly have a "free will" it should be very easy to do! True?

Food for thought!

Grace and peace!

sdg!

rd

Ro 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Paul very "CLEARLY" defined the difference between "having the will", and "having the means" to perform.

Having a "Free will" can't/won't "Stop sin", it just means God won't give you a bath unless you're "WILLING" to let him give you a bath.

We do have the "CHOICE" of remaining a "dirty old man" or a "CLEANED UP, New Creature".

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by partialrapture:
Good comments johnp
I agree to contend, and some topics stir others up more, I can think of som e for me myself

I would ask though for the sharpening of my sword how can God be 3 in 1 or 1 but 3?
is that possible for our minds to compehend?
I see both free will taught in scipture as well as Gods control I therefore embrace both with no complications as read. God bless

Almost "Everything" in scripture has an "Exception", so scripture must be understood "IN CONTEXT" of what is being said.

It's appointed to man to die "ONCE", (not Twice, second death), but even then, some will never die, as in the rapture.

The "Rapture" is an "Exception" to the "Appointment",

a careful/close study of scripture will reveal many more "exceptions" to other things as well.

Through "FOREKNOWLEDGE", The names of all the saved were written before the foundation of the world, and only those names will be saved,

but God isn't "confined" to the "present", he can go back to the "Beginning" to record any name of a person saved "TODAY".

Man "Thinks" in terms of "past, present, future", that isn't true for God, while their name wasn't recorded until "TODAY" when they "CHOSE" to be saved, God can go back to the "Beginning" to record their name.


Man believes the names written from the beginning can't be "altered" by people choosing to be saved, "TODAY", this is "predestination". but in the "CONTEXT" of God, they certainly can.

The term "Foreknowledge" doesn't accurately describe God who sits "outside" the "realm of time".

 

[johnp.]

Hello partialrapture.

I would ask though for the sharpening of my sword how can God be 3 in 1 or 1 but 3?

If it is for the sharpening then that must mean that you do not believe in the Trinity? I thought you were contrasting the difficulty of the Trinity with the difficulty of free will and God's Sovereignty.

I see both free will taught in scipture as well as Gods control I therefore embrace both with no complications as read. God bless

God's control? God's Sovereignty. Sovereignty being the operative word. How can two be sovereign? God is One.

Do you believe in the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit of the baptismal formula?

I used to think a lot about how. I think I have some helpful understanding (speculation?) of the Trinity but I have not tried it in public and I don't know really if it would be helpful.

How's that. God bless you as well man and may His Wisdom be revealed.

john.

 

[johnp.]

Hello Me4Him.

The term "Foreknowledge" doesn't accurately describe God who sits "outside" the "realm of time".

The next stop, the Twilight Zone. And just where in scripture is this little gem?

To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. Isaiah 8:20.

God can go back to the "Beginning" to record their name.

Why? Did He not know in advance? If God can go back in time then back in time still exists and in one part of that back in time Christ is still on the cross. You err.

Speculation is part of our creativeness and is fine kept in it's place but when speculation supports a doctrine you are in trouble because you lack scriptural proof.

The term "Foreknowledge" doesn't accurately describe God who sits "outside" the "realm of time".

That is a denial of scripture as translated then? Which word would you like to see replace it? Foreknowledge means to know someting before it happens so it is no surprise to see you don't think it accurately describes the Greek word that it is intended to translate into.

Having a "Free will" can't/won't "Stop sin", it just means God won't give you a bath unless you're "WILLING" to let him give you a bath.

Come on now where's your scripturual proof? You have none.

JN 13:9 "Then, Lord," Simon Peter replied, "not just my feet but my hands and my head as well!"

JN 13:10 Jesus answered, "A person who has had a bath needs only to wash his feet; his whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you." 11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

They didn't even know that Christ had cleansed them already. You are wrong. It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus... 1 Cor 1:30. God is Sovereign. I am what I am by the grace of God... 1 Cor 15:10. And so are you.

john.

 

[Me4Him]

John, I "think" you need to "meditate", "let it sink in", before answering.

If God is in the "Twilight zone", you'll have to get in the twilight zone with him to understand him.

 

[johnp.]

If God is in the "Twilight zone", you'll have to get in the twilight zone with him to understand him.

No not 'you' but He would bring me into it 'if'.