A Caution For Every Christian That Drinks Alcohol

[Earth Wind and Fire]

You are wrong. The first casualty of drinking is self-awareness. Someone who has drunk too much will think he's being clever, witty and attractive, and just one more drink won't do him any harm, whilst his friends are finding him embarrassing and others are finding him offensive.

Who is going to listen to the witness of a guy who made a fool of himself through drink last night?

You gotta be kidding me......a person who knows his limit & keeps to it is safe. And if the guy witnessing is aware of his or her surroundings, knows his limit, is serious about keeping himself sober while discussing Christ & His Message is going to be fine. now if your goal is to get drunk, that's another story altogether.

 

[TCassidy]

However to the IFB you are wrong as they would auto assume you are in the bar to get drunk.

Why do you make such false accusations against those you do not even know?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You gotta be kidding me......a person who knows his limit & keeps to it is safe. And if the guy witnessing is aware of his or her surroundings, knows his limit, is serious about keeping himself sober while discussing Christ & His Message is going to be fine. now if your goal is to get drunk, that's another story altogether.

My friend, I have seen it!
Now if you read my previous post on this thread, I said that we need to be careful, and that is all that I'm saying, but, 'Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.'

'Wine is a mocker' (Proverbs 20:1). we need to beware lest it mock us.

 

[Smyth]

'Wine is a mocker' (Proverbs 20:1). we need to beware lest it mock us.

Money is the root of all evil. The key isn't to avoid wine and money, but to not let ourselves become servants to them.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My friend, I have seen it!
Now if you read my previous post on this thread, I said that we need to be careful, and that is all that I'm saying, but, 'Let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall.'

'Wine is a mocker' (Proverbs 20:1). we need to beware lest it mock us.

Steve, Ive brought people to Christ by witnessing in bars! Yea I know its probably audacious but people do listen. It is my fervent belief that you have to be there with the sinner.....especially when they are acting out & perhaps in a low mood, wanting to make changes to their lives (God Changes). I don't think we can ignore those opportunities....see we are showing them that God is there for them, even in a bar.

Notice I didn't say a strip joint......that's not showing a Christ Like life.

BTW, depending on the time spent in the bar or pub, I limit my intake to one......ahhhh, maybe two beers (Lagers). And I drink them because they are inert & I like the taste.... (and I always eat something with it)

 

[evangelist6589]

Why do you make such false accusations against those you do not even know?

Cause I went to BJU for 2 years and have been in various IFB churches since 2007 ranging from SC TO Colorado.

 

[TCassidy]

Cause I went to BJU for 2 years and have been in various IFB churches since 2007 ranging from SC TO Colorado.

So now you know how every IFB on the planet is thinking?

 

[evangelist6589]

So now you know how every IFB on the planet is thinking?

I am generalizing.

 

[TCassidy]

I am generalizing.

Exactly my point.

 

[Salty]

I never met a drunk who never drank

 

[Baptist Believer]

You are wrong. The first casualty of drinking is self-awareness.

If you hit the point where you've lost self-awareness, you've already gone too far.

If you have purposed not to get drunk and you limit yourself to one serving, then how are you going to lose self-awareness?

 

[Baptist Believer]

I never met a drunk who never drank

I've met plenty of addicts who have never consumed alcohol. The problem is addictive behavior, not the substance/activity to which one is addicted.

 

[JonC]

I've met plenty of addicts who have never consumed alcohol. The problem is addictive behavior, not the substance/activity to which one is addicted.

The problem is sin. Without Christ we are all given over to the flesh, addicted to our own desires.

Sometimes I get the notion (not from your post, don't get me wrong brother) that our culture turns everything into an "addiction" and then turns "addiction" into a disease to elude accountability. In this scheme of things, there is no such thing as a drunkenness, fornication, lustfulness, covetousness, etc.,as a sin falling squarely on the sinners shoulders because it can all boil down to an addiction, or worst - an entitlement.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The problem is sin.

Obviously. I wasn't trying to parrot Sunday School answers where I have to constantly point out that humankind is fallen and sinful instead of trying to make a better point.

Without Christ we are all given over to the flesh, addicted to our own desires.

Yes, but this is too simplistic and shallow of a view of sin. You jumped on my use of the phrase "addictive behavior", apparently loading into it a number of things I did not say and missing the point entirely.

Sin is not only specific and discrete behavior, but it also includes patterns of behavior, additions, and corruption of the systems of the body - sometimes caused by a fallen world and sometimes by previous behavior. Our life experience and choices form our character, for good or ill. Transformation in Christ is a transformation of character which leads to a transformation of behavior.

Addictive behavior and addictive personalities are all part of what scripture calls sin. We are responsible for both our specific behavior and our character.

Sometimes I get the notion (not from your post, don't get me wrong brother) that our culture turns everything into an "addiction" and then turns "addiction" into a disease to elude accountability. In this scheme of things, there is no such thing as a drunkenness, fornication, lustfulness, covetousness, etc.,as a sin falling squarely on the sinners shoulders because it can all boil down to an addiction, or worst - an entitlement.

I wasn't advocating that at all.

 

[JonC]

Obviously. I wasn't trying to parrot Sunday School answers where I have to constantly point out that humankind is fallen and sinful instead of trying to make a better point.

I do not believe that there are “Sunday school answers” and then real answers. I don’t believe you are ignoring the sin aspect; I was only trying to address the root issue instead of leaving it implied as I have found the sin aspect often ignored.

Yes, but this is too simplistic and shallow of a view of sin. You jumped on my use of the phrase "addictive behavior", apparently loading into it a number of things I did not say and missing the point entirely..

I disagree that addressing alcoholism as sin is too simplistic. In fact, I believe addressing such sins as addiction is far to simplistic. Addressing it as sin includes facing addictive behaviors, but it goes beyond this surface approach and to the root. In fact, I do not know of any passage of Scripture that addresses drunkenness and such as “addictions” rather than sins. Do you?

I wasn't advocating that at all.

I apologize if you thought I was even remotely suggesting that you advocated calling sin an “addiction” to avoid accountability. I had hoped that my comment that I did not get that notion from your post would have prevented this misunderstanding. You have shown yourself to be a student of Scripture, Baptist Believer. I am in no way trying to challenge that notion or discount your words. Just as Salty’s post (which was about not seeing a drunk that did not drink….e.g., 1 Cor. 6:11) sparked you to compose a post about addictive behavior in general, your post brought to my mind a related but different aspect in our culture. If you took mine to be referring to you, then again, you have my apology as that was not my intent. My main point is that I believe all of these "addictions" are best addressed as sin (which will include addressing addictive behavior but will go much deeper).

 

[JonC]

What I am talking about is that sin is more than “addictive behavior”. We do not have to be addictive to a substance (like alcohol) to see both addictive behavior and sin. No one falls into deep sin – they slide, inch by inch. This is why we are astounded when we see just how far some have fallen, and we can trace back (for example) just how an affair was sparked off by an indulgent glance or drunkenness by that first drink in excess. After taking root and being fed, sin becomes very much like any addiction and it draws the sinner deeper into the fall.

This may be physical addiction. It may simply be feeding our own selfishness by trampling a “weaker brother” with our “Christian liberty”. I’ve seen this happen as well. Men insist that they have the “biblical right” to something that may very well be a matter of Christian liberty. This lends them to a harsh self-centeredness in other areas of their lives as little by little their concern shifts from others towards justifying their own desires through Scripture.

As far as the OP is concerned, only a fool would ignore that caution is required for every Christian that drinks alcohol (Scripture is replete with caution against drinking). This does not mean it is wrong to drink. But Christian liberty taken up as a right to do something is not Christian at all; it’s just “liberty”.

 

[Baptist Believer]

IIn fact, I believe addressing such sins as addiction is far to simplistic. Addressing it as sin includes facing addictive behaviors, but it goes beyond this surface approach and to the root. In fact, I do not know of any passage of Scripture that addresses drunkenness and such as “addictions” rather than sins. Do you?

Galatians 5:16-21 comes to mind. Addiction is an issue of formed character. That's not to say that persons who have certain weaknesses are unredeemed, but they have not yet be properly formed in Christ.

Paul contrasts the character/lifestyle of a person captive to the flesh (the most severe form is addiction) and the person led by the Spirit. Regarding those who have an unredeemed character:

Galatians 5:16-21
Live by the Spirit, I say, and do not gratify the desires of the flesh. For what the flesh desires is opposed to the Spirit, and what the Spirit desires is opposed to the flesh; for these are opposed to each other, to prevent you from doing what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law. Now the works of the flesh are obvious: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, anger, quarrels, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these. I am warning you, as I warned you before: those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

 

[Jeremy Seth]

You gotta be kidding me......a person who knows his limit & keeps to it is safe. And if the guy witnessing is aware of his or her surroundings, knows his limit, is serious about keeping himself sober while discussing Christ & His Message is going to be fine. now if your goal is to get drunk, that's another story altogether.

How is a limit determined, if not "any influence from alcohol"?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

How is a limit determined, if not "any influence from alcohol"?

Past experience of course. And what do you mean by your ending question?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I never met a drunk who never drank

Never met a dry drunk? It's quite an experience.