A challenge to Arminianism

The "solas" were produced by Calvin and the reformers... ALL of them, please don't use them unless you know what produced them and what theologically stood behind them.

Sola scriptura
Sola fide
Sola gratia
Sola tota scriptura
Sola deo gloria

All battle crys AGAINST the Roman Catholic church and their free-will humanistic philosophy

 

rc;

I'm rather tired of this insulting one another. If you can't find it with in your self to just stop it and both of find rspect for each other, what are we going to accomplish? Neither one of us is going to accomplish a thing. I can keep it up as well as you. Do you really like it so much you can't give it up.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us all;
Mike

 

Ignorance is simply "not knowing" something. This is not an insult. You have repeatedly made statements that are incorrect and objectively easily proven. Your statements on chruch history are not only false but opposite of what you state thats all.

 

rc;
Are you saying you won't stop with the demeaning remarks?
Mike

 

I'm saying if you don't know something don't talk about it! If you state something as a fact, back it up. I can easily stop hounding you on this, all you have to do is SHOW ME !

If you stated something as a fact with out knowing if its true or not, what is that then? It's insulting TO ME for you to do such things and waste MY time. Don't you consider that there are consequences to things you say? I spent over a hour and a half going back into my history books to make sure that I could with confidence and TRUTHFULNESS say that you are wrong. I studied not only to make sure what I said was correct, but to see if I was WRONG! It seems like the difference between you and I are I speak AFTER I have facts and you just make things up, gambling that no one will hold you accountable... and if someone does, you claim you are being insulted. Try looking at Matt 18.15-17.

I can respect differing points of view, whether or not I believe they are correct or not, stubborn or humble, sarcastic or transparent, but not UNTRUTHFUL, don't you know that is a sin? Do you just "blow" those sins off? I let liberalness go far enough on this forum, but I will not respect someone who will debate without proof, it's vanity, and foolishness.

 

Hi rc;

I have showed you and you refuse to accept it. You know you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it. Just because you disagree with what I show as proof doesn't give anyone the right to attack another personally. You can disagree with out the insults.

It's called debate. A debate should be carried out with out personal insults. You feel insulted just because I disagree with you, does not make it personal. Pardon me but who are you to demand that everyone agree with you. Wake up and smell the coffee. Even other Calvinist do not agree with you. You know you do not have any special revelation of the scriptures This is the same mistake made by men like Benny Hinn. He trully believes that he has a special revelation should I or everyone else assume the same of you. I'm not buying in to that nonsense. Your special revelation is not truth.

rc you went through the wrong history books to prove that Calvinism did not come out of Catholicism. Any one who would make such a claim is terribly wrong. If you trully want to know where it came from read what Calvin himself wrote in the institutes of Christianity Here is a link to the entires works of John Calvin.

http://www.reformed.org/books/institutes/indxbk1.html

This will take you to book 1. This is where I got most of my knowledge of modern Calvinism from it's original sorce. Read it then you'll know where I got my information from.

Statements like this is what makes your insults personal. I let you get away with it for a long time before I began the same sort of nonsense with you to defend my self.

You judge me with out cause you convict me by your own rule with out seeing the evidence but disbelieve what is in front of your face.
This is the last time I will answer any of your post I will just consider everything you write not even there Unless you can be Christian enough to work things out You have to everything your way so be it your way will result in no conversation at all.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All
Mike

 

ILUVLIGHT.

If I'm not mistaken I understand that you have said that Calvinism was declared by Church Councils to be heretical. Is this right?
If it is;
All that has been asked of you is that you prove what you say. This is not an attack but a request for information. I fail to see why you refuse to answer the question which you need to do to support your claim.

johnp.

 

You've shown me? I've gone back on every thread and have not seen a reply by you stating a council, or synod. Here you go again, making statements hoping no one will hold you accountable... now you are lying to cover up your lie. Now you have to show me a council or synod AND show me in a PREVIOUS reply showing that you did.

As for the institutes, do you know the difference historically and definitionally between A "Catholic" church and THE catholic Church? ... People (Augustine included) used the Holy Catholic church as in UNIVERSAL, invisible church of God in which he was apart. He was NOT in the ROMAN CATHOLIC church which wasn't even in place yet. Papacy didn't even exist in Augustine's lifetime and all references apply to the universal church. He was the Bishop of Hippo but these offices (bishops, deacons) were in place from the epistle Churches. Do you think the Roman Catholic churches "invented" these offices? I hope you don't assume because He was a Bishop he was apart of a Roman Catholic church?!

The power plays and politics that evolved into the Roman Catholic church were just beginning at the time of Augustine's death. Even Zosimus' (Bishop of Rome in 529 A.D.) views on Pelagius were condemed. But it was HIS views (Zosimus) that lcondemneded the way of the for the begining of man centered works for salvation (meritorious justification, indulgances, purgatory) in the ROMAN CAHTOLIC church. ALL these false doctrines came from ZosimusbeginningindulgencesCATHOLIC' view that "man is not totally depraved but has good in him to freely choose Christ by belief".... sound familiar?

 

rc;
The only thing you are capable of is slander and false accusations. You are the most untruthfull person I have ever met.
Mike

 

Typical of liberals.

Back them into a corner and try to hold them to something they said and they try to skirt around the issue or fall back on Ad Hominum attacks.

Show me ! I'm not the one decieving people. Everything I have said I not just SAY but give the PROOF of what I say by GIVING the church history. You said Calvinism was condemned by the Church and have given NOTHING to back it up.

SHOW ME !

 

I luv light


How ironic! Your name that is. So far I for one have seen no proof of what you say. Please back up
what you say,she some light on my thinking. I would say that I am not completely an Arminiast but can also say that I am not a complete calvinist at this point. I would say that I lean more toward Calvinism though. If you can she d light on this subject it would be appreciated.

 

Hello chandler nice to meet you.

MT 6:22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
Dark light man!

johnp.

 

Interesting debate. I for one would also like to see ILUVLIGHT back up his claims. All I have seen so far is ILL dodge the question time and time and time and time and time again.

How about this. ILL, forget RC asking you for proof to back up your claim that the church condemned calvinism, (as you obviously want to avoid answering him)...Instead can you show me and several others on this thread where the church EVER condemned calvinism? We genuinley want to know?

Thanks

 

bump

 

I did a "Google search" using the phrase "Calvinism Refuted" and got over 7000 hits. Not having time to review them all, there were a few that are noteworthy in that former Calvinists provide their "evidence" regarding Calvinism and the Church. Some of them list a long string of footnotes providing reference to some pretty old church documents. Again not having the time to review them all, all that I am saying is the internet provides much good reference material on the subject.

 

Wes.

Could be it's the increase of knowledge Daniel told us would come at the end.
Dan 12:4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

I just did a search "Arminianism Refuted" and got 661.

johnp.

 

Satan must be working full time to cloud the truth in the eyes of the believer!

 

Satan must be working full time to cloud the truth in the eyes of the believer! </font>[/QUOTE]So that explains your problem. I'm praying that God will reveal his truth to you.

 

Satan must be working full time to cloud the truth in the eyes of the believer! </font>[/QUOTE]So that explains your problem. I'm praying that God will reveal his truth to you. </font>[/QUOTE]I did a google search on "God refuted" and got 307,000 hits.
So what does that prove?

 

I notice Wes that you have not brought any of that info to bear on the problem?

I'm dead interested in what you have discovered. What is it Wes?

johnp.