A challenge to Arminianism

There is much to be digested, some of what I found was attempts by Calvinist's to debunk the debunkers, but they use the same misinformation you do.

If you refuse to accept what's already been presented, why would you accept what anyone else says? You'd rather re-fire your same old tired "Eli" rounds thinking that if you refire them they will have the desired effect!

 

"Eli" awaits you on one of the other threads old chap!

I have no desire in the matter. ISA 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.

johnp.

 

Hi Chandler;
First you don't like my name;

So you don't think I mean what I say in a pin name. Of course you want me to shine some light your way when I hope that it is the light of Christ that get shown
Talk about not understanding what you just asked for.
Any way Here is some light for you I'm not shining it Christ already has;
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

I have no desire in the matter. ISA 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.


johnp. </font>[/QUOTE]His purpose and Your purpose are not the same purpose johnp.

 

ILL I notice you still haven't answered. It is amazing what some will do to dodge dodge dodge the issue.

 

Wes.

When you hear the word of God it is because He sent it to do a job on. Hardening and softening who He will.

johnp.

 

Gee whiz, how will we all know that we have been properly hardened or softened? Is agreement with you the standard?

 

Wes.

If the all there means the sheep and the goats I would say that it is not possible for one blinded by God to realise how deceived he is.
The sheep make judgments about all things. 1 Cor 2:15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn. 21 Distressed and hungry, they will roam through the land; when they are famished, they will become enraged and, looking upward, will curse their king and their God. 22 Then they will look toward the earth and see only distress and darkness and fearful gloom, and they will be thrust into utter darkness.

1 Sam 1:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "
To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

You deny scripture.

johnp.

 

No johnp, I do not deny scripture, and I've told you so. I understand it to mean something different than your understanding, but you will not acknowledge what I understand! You and I will not agree on 1 Sam 1:14 because you do not include 1 Sam 1:13 in your understanding!

 

Hey JohnP;
This is what it says;
1Sa 1:14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.

Your Bible must be broke huh! I know being the great Calvinist you are you couldn't possibly make a mistake.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

ILUVLIGHT.

A major error on my part silly of me. The verse in question is of course 1 Sam 3:14. Well spotted man!
It must have been those couple of days you had off that makes you so bright and bushy tailed 'a'?
It's good to see the rest did you wonders now prehaps you would like to answer all those questions that await you?

May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
This prayer of yours, why do you ask the lord to shine His light on Judas?

And seeing as you have taken glee in discovering that I made an error with the verse number, (again you catch me), you might like to have a go at really destroying me by answering the point. The point being; 1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

Is that or is that not limited atonement?

johnp.

 

How often must I repeat myself on the subject of Atonement?

In the scriptures WHAT is ATONED! Did John the Baptist say "Behold the Lamb of God who taketh away the 'sinners' of the world? What then did the Lamb of God take away? Jesus died to atone for what?

Is Eli a what, or a who?

Is Eli's House, as used in the scripture, a what, or a who?

Is God saying to Samual that the sin of Eli's house is not atoned? 0r is God saying that for Eli's house there is no atonement? Which means that inspite of everything Eli's house attempts to do to atone for their sin, there will be no atonement acceptable to God for them because in verse 13, "they continue to curse God"! First they will not attempt to atone for their sin because they are cursing the one who "receives" their sacrifice, and sacrifice of animals is not what pleases God!

If Eli's house were to come to God with contrite spirits and repentance, God would have forgiven their sins without animal sacrifice being offered up, just as he does for each of us in our time. But they, in their arrogance refused to be corrected, and refused to take on humility. Therefore God turned his back on them.

There is no limitation whatever on the Christ's atonement for sin!

 

Wes.

A new thing?
1 Sam 3:13 For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons made themselves contemptible, and he failed to restrain them.

What do you want me to acknowledge from verse 13? Is it; God told Eli that He was going to judge his family forever because he failed to restrain his children?
Because Eli did not do as he should the rest of his line were not to be atoned for. The sins of the father visited on his sons?
Why are they reprobate? ...His sons, however, did not listen to their father's rebuke, for it was the LORD's will to put them to death. 1 Sam 2:25.
Now you I imagine will say it is because of the boys behaviour that causes God to reprobate them. That does not need to be disputed here but what does need to be done is witness the way God treats future people on the basis of what?
You have a choice.
God chose to reprobate Eli's line according to the purpose of His will.
Or.
Eli, or his sons, did not do as they should and because of that the rest of his line were reprobate.
Which one you want or is there another?

johnp.

 

The sin of the Father, failing to correct his children, is one factor. But, the sins of the sons, who are at this time adults able to discern the truth of their own actions, refuse to be corrected by the father. Their rebellion against God, manifesting itself in the cursing of God caused them to be condemned by God.

Is God liable and must afford his forgiveness to those who refuse to repent before him and continue in their sins? Are you liable for you adult children?

This is an example of a fruit tree that produces bad fruit. God the Gardener, uproots that tree and casts it all on the fire.

 

Wes.

That is a God thing! Only He controls the future. Ask Him. I shall not.

Sin. Sin is the wages of death. Something earned.
RO 2:12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law,....
Those who sin without knowing the law perish for all have sinned.
...and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law.
Those who know the law will be judged according to the law which when broken is sin. Sin will be judged and the sinner will go to Hell for infringments of the law and their condition.
If all sin has been atoned for then Romans 2:12 needs scrubbing. No wait! That's just you denying scripture again.

PS 32:2 Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit.
ISA 53:1 Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
ISA 53:4 Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted.
ISA 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.
ISA 53:6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
ISA 53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

PS 32:2 Blessed is the man whose sin the LORD does not count against him and in whose spirit is no deceit. Then you deny scripture again or you must believe all men blessed.

Why don't you read the story then you would not ask would you?
1 Sam 2:31 The time is coming when I will cut short your strength and the strength of your father's house, so that there will not be an old man in your family line 32 and you will see distress in my dwelling. Although good will be done to Israel, in your family line there will never be an old man. 33 Every one of you that I do not cut off from my altar will be spared only to blind your eyes with tears and to grieve your heart, and all your descendants will die in the prime of life.

Which chapter is that 13 in? I see no 'curse God' in 3:13?
1 Sam 3:13 For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about; his sons made themselves contemptible, and he failed to restrain them.
What I see in verse 13 is that a family was going to be judge because of the sin he knew about. It had nothing to do with anyone but Eli. Eli is held responsible for the loss of His sons and the rest of the family line. The rest of the family get it in the neck because of the sin he knew about.

Utter darkness you are in. God says He swore an oath that the ones in question would not be atoned for and you o mighty one says that He would forgive them?

johnp.

 

What translation is that please Wes?

1 Sam 3:13,14; You are to tell him that I condemn his family for ever, since he is aware that his sons have been cursing God and yet has not corrected them. Therefore-I swear it to the family of Eli-no sacrifice or offering shall ever expiate the guilt of Eli's family.'

johnp.

 

Wes.

You are wrong and you deny scripture again, ...His sons, however, did not listen to their father's rebuke, for it was the LORD's will to put them to death. They refused because God wanted them dead.
You get everything wrong how come from such a tree as you?

I am responsible for the way they are because the way they are reflects my responsibility in growing them as was the case of Eli.

johnp.

 

Hence, God's judgment against the House of Eli!

 

Wes.

So because Eli failed God determined to punish his decendants. Where is free will? Deal with this Wes.

What translation is this please Wes?

1 Sam 3:13,14; You are to tell him that I condemn his family for ever, since he is aware that his sons have been cursing God and yet has not corrected them. Therefore-I swear it to the family of Eli-no sacrifice or offering shall ever expiate the guilt of Eli's family.'

johnp.

 

JohnP;
I see your still ranting about Eli such a meaningless test of the atonement. You see Eli died not believing in God which is why he was so disobedient. There has been millions of men gone to hell because they refuse to believe, what else is new?. He was a man with out faith. Some how you just can't see that. I'm surprized at your lack of understanding of the scriptures.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike