A challenge to Arminianism

Do you like the translation or do you simply want to attack it?

The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB)

 

Please refer to the parable of the vineyard, the vinedresser, etc. Pay attention to what happens to the vine (Eli) when the fruit of the vine (Eli's house) goes bad! Not only are the branches pruned and burned, but the vine itself is uprooted and burned.

 

ILUVLIGHT.

Ecc 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

Really? Prove it please.

Why does that surprise you?

Would you like to explain to me now why you think it appropriate to ask the Lord to shine His light on Judas?

Ecc 7:6 For as the crackling of thorns under a pot, so is the laughter of the fool: this also is vanity.

johnp.

 

Wes.

I wondered what translation it was.

Would it not have been easier giving me the chapter and verse?

No.
...but the vine itself is uprooted and burned.
The vine was not uprooted or burnt but Eli was a Child of God saved by grace, paid for by Christ. Eli was not lost and there is no way to refute this fact.
Pay attention to what happens to the vine (Eli) when the fruit of the vine (Eli's house) goes bad!
You have it the wrong way round Wes it was not because the fruit went bad but the fruit went bad through Eli's neglect! For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about... You pay attention to that. The judgment came down on Eli's house because of Eli's failure not because of the failure of the house. Or deny scripture again.
Pay attention to what happens to the vine (Eli)...
What happens to the vine Wes? 1 Sam 3:18 So Samuel told him everything, hiding nothing from him. Then Eli said, "He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes."
Content in the Lord that He, the Lord, The Sovereign One, will carry out His plan of salvation and reprobation as He wills. So be it Lord! A boy told Him that his decendants would all die young or if they lived it would only be for ruin and misery and Eli said, "So be it Lord.

..."He is the LORD; let him do what is good in his eyes." 1 Sam 3:18.

1 Sam 3:14 Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

Is that or is that not limited atonement?

johnp.

 

How can that be if there is no atonement for Eli's house?

Paid for by Christ? What did Jesus use for currency? Was it not his own blood? Isn't it the blood of Christ that atones for sin? If no atonement for Eli's house, doesn't Eli live there?

You obviously have little or NO knowledge regarding horticultural practices, especially when it comes to Grapevines, Orange trees, Apple trees, etc. When the fruit of a tree or vine is not the quality of fruit the "grower" expects or demands, the gardener UPROOTS the tree and throws it ALL on the fire because there is something wrong with the tree or vine itself! We in the fruit basket of the world, California, USA, see this all the time. Fruit growers uproot entire vineyards and orchards because the quality of the fruit has diminished because of the tree or vine. Or because some bug or virus has infested the stock and it has become corrupt!

If Eli had heeded God's warning, and disciplined his house and they repented, the house would not have been condemned by God to not have an atonement! Pay attention to that!

 

Ok Eli wasn't saved then. (He was though).

Yes indeed praise the Lord! Horticultural practices involve mud and pooh! I'm a townie.

Especially! I would agree.

Right Wes that is how most of the world views Californians! But the whole of this paragraph is taken up in describing the fruit and none on the point. The point is, "You have it the wrong way round Wes it was not because the fruit went bad but the fruit went bad through Eli's neglect!"
For I told him that I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about... You pay attention to that.
You decided to ingnore the implication that it was Eli that caused this to happen regardless of others actions because, "I would judge his family forever because of the sin he knew about..." You fail to answer the point.

johnp.

 

I see no problem with God condemning Eli's family forever. They were cursing God! Does God have an obligation to preserve those who curse him?

By the way, johnp, God speaking through Samuel to decrepit Eli, and that certainly says that Eli's children are mature adults, and not some to come along in the future. Do you not agree that evil begets evil? The evil in Eli's house manifested itself in Eli's children and would propogate through his children's children. Yep God did the right thing, don't you agree?

God is simply telling Eli that there is nothing his "House" can do to atone for their sins, because there is no atonement for those who Curse God!

That does not mean that there is no atonement for Sin, for certainly Jesus' Atonement for sin included All sins. Those who Curse God are never inclined to have faith in God, and Salvation is through faith.

 

Wes.

It is a limited atonement then.

It is a limited atonement then.

Your forked tongue remains forked I see.

johnp.

 

God the Son's atonement FOR SIN, is not a limited atonement. Your ability to discern truth is however limited.

It is a limited atonement then. </font>[/QUOTE]Eli's House which is "under the Law" can offer no acceptable sacrifice to atone for them and their sins. Atonement that would be limited to Eli's house.

God the Son's Atonement FOR SIN is not limited. It covers All sin, but alas Eli's house was previously condemned by the same God who atones for Sin by offering his Son to be the sacrifice for Sin. Eli's house could not receive the benefit of atonement because they lacked faith in God. Atonement does not save one into eternal life. Faith does that while God's grace is present. God removed his Grace, that is, lifted HIS favor from Eli's house. Not for Eli's house.

Your forked tongue remains forked I see.
johnp.</font>[/QUOTE]Your failure to understand remains your failure I see. Not for you!

 

Wes.

What's that all about Wes? What would have been an acceptable sacrifice for Eli's house if Jesus wasn't the sacrifice?
Jesus did not atone for Eli's house. Limited atonement is proved.

That is clearly false. They could not receive the benefit of the atonement because God swore an oath, " Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' " 1 Sam 3:14.
It was never made for them by Jesus.
You have been proved wrong and your belief must be in ruins.
Denial does not help you.

johnp.

 

Johnp,
Under the law, an unblemished lamb of the family of animals called Bovidae, was the acceptable sacrifice of atonement for sin. The lamb was brought for sacrifice by the persons seeking atonement. God told Eli there is no such sacrifice for his house, meaning there is nothing the house of Eli can offer to atone for continually cursing God!

Under Grace, there is but one Atoning Sacrifice and it was atonement for Sin, not the sinner. No one needed to bring a sacrificial animal, one was provided by God in the form of Man, His only begotten Son!

Johnp, your literalist dogma proves nothing except that you are immaturely holding on to something that you cannot prove has any material bearing on the atonement provided by the Christ!

You can believe the Christ's atonement is limited if you so desire, and if you continue in that belief it may just be true for you!