A Church that Accepts Much

[Gold Dragon]

fatbacker, being from South Carolina, have you ever actually met anyone from the United Church of Canada or read anything about them?

The United Church of Canada is a distinct entity from the United Church of Christ, while they do share some commonalities, they also have some very significant differences.

For one thing the United Church of Canada started in 1925 as a merger of Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists in Canada while the United Church of Christ started in 1957 as a merger of Reformed churches and Congregationalists in the United States.

 

[Watchman]

"Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy" (Rev 3:4).
Here we have the Lord Jesus saying that certain individuals were His and shall walk with Him, even from what He described as a dead Church (verse 1).
We cannot say that there could be, in these Churches, those who have not bowed the knee to liberalism, political correctness and the homosexual agenda.

 

[Glory-to-God]

What they have to say about their doctrine of JESUS CHRIST....they do not believe he is GOD....this is a false doctrine...there are lots of problems with their other stances too. Do a carefull search. Any church that condones SIN is not of God...it takes understanding you are a sinner in need of salvation to even become a Christian first and formost. Their answer to SIN and redemtion is way off too.

Here is their stand on Jesus...nothing about him being GOD in the flesh. I know it sounds like they do but like many false religions they say what you think is right but their meaning is twisted. No where does it say Jesus IS God. Ask them if they believe Jesus IS God and that will tell you a whole bunch.


II. Jesus Christ
We believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, Who, for us men and our salvation became man and dwelt among us.

We believe that He lived a perfect human life, wholly devoted to the will of God and the service of man.

We believe that in Him God comes face to face with men; so that they learn that God loves them seeks their good, bears their sorrows and their sin, and claims their exclusive faith and perfect obedience.

We believe that in Jesus Christ God acted to save man, taking, at measureless cost, man's sin upon Himself; that the Cross reveals at once God's abhorrence of sin and His saving love in its height and depth and power; and that the Cross is for all time the effectual means of reconciling the world unto God.

We believe that Jesus was raised victorious over death and declared to be the Son of God with power; and that He is alive for evermore, our Savior and our Lord.

So we acknowledge Jesus Christ as the Son of God Incarnate, the Savior of the world.

[ November 13, 2005, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Glory-to-God ]

 

[Glory-to-God]

They mention " SON OF GOD " three times NEVER
Jesus IS God.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Glory-to-God, you need to read a little further to the section on The Holy Trinity.

United Church of Canada : A Statement of Faith (1940)

IV. The Holy Trinity
Knowing God thus, as Creator and Father, as Redeemer in Christ, and as Holy Spirit working in us, we confess our faith in the Holy Trinity.

So we acknowledge and worship one God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Glory-to-God:
Any church that condones SIN is not of God

I agree that all those churches that condone slander of other Christians is not of God.

 

[fatbacker]

Gold Dragon, what ever name they have over their door is of no consequence it is what is taught inside. I do not care if Marco was talking about the United church of whatever or the Catholic church, Luthern, Baptist or any other church in this world. When you hear about a church that teaches or accepts that kind of doctrine then the denomination is of little importance. I have gone into churches and used Christ name and then started telling people their futures during the service. I was a new believer and I had no problem discerning that it was from the devil and not of God and I was able to discern the evil because of the Holy Spirit was protecting me and guiding me and also the fact that I read my bible and knew that it was wrong.

 

[Marco]

Holy Cow! Okay, the reason I asked this question is because I just had new neighbors move next door from this church. This is the biggest Church in Canada so I thought to ask questions.

Honestly, I do not have an opinion on some of these issues. I guess if that doesn't make me a Christian to some then so be be it.
I'm very new to this faith. I had a bad experience just a few weeks ago with a "church" which was a cult. I come from another religion. I'm in a huge transition now.
I just don't know if being Gay is wrong. As far as I know now, no Holy Spirit has told me. Abortions, well my gut feeling doesn't like it. As far as the gender neutral Bible...I have no clue as I am very new to the Bible.

Anyway, I will try to stay away from my new neighbors because I want no influences at this time other than from my church. Thanks for the help.

 

[le bel]

I agree with GTG and Fatbacker.

 

[rsr]

Hey, fatbacker, let me ask you a question. Do you always feel the need to make such far-reaching snap judgements — with no information — about someone you know only from a post on the Internet?

I am not offended by God's word; I am offended by some self-righteous people who think they have a corner on wisdom and can discern the spiritual state of others from glancing at a message board.

 

[StefanM]

Originally posted by fatbacker:
If what Marco says about that church is true then the only advice he needs is whether or not the bible says it is okay StefanM. Again I see antother passive baptist who cannot make a decision based soley on the bible. I do not need anyones advice wise or not to know that church is way off base and anti God.You keep applauding those who would rather get human advice then God's biblical advice StefanM

FALSE DICHOTOMY!

I was applauding his willingness to search out those who are more knowledgeable about the Bible and its application to life. Do I personally need anyone to make decisions for me on this matter? NO. I voiced my opinion earlier in the thread. Do we need baby Christians going around making dogmatic assertions based on little knowledge? NO. When we have that, heresy grows. When one has just come to Christ, one has a lot to learn, and it takes time. Things are confusing.

There is a reason God created a system of leadership for the church--so that the leaders could ensure correct instruction. Mature Christians help new Christians. That's the BIBLICAL way of doing things. You don't just lock the new Christian in a room with the Bible and expect perfect knowledge immediately. Marco was asking for guidance. We shouldn't berate him for that; we should help him.

For my personal perspective (which I base on the Bible):

Homosexuality is wrong,and any believers who find themselves in a "church" which accepts homosexuals as ministers should leave this "church" ASAP. Such a "church" denies the clear teaching of Scripture.

1 Corinthians 6:9 (NKJV)
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,nor sodomites,nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Tim. 1:8-11 (NKJV)
8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

2 Cor 6:14-18 (NKJV)
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:


“ I will dwell in them
And walk among them.
I will be their God,
And they shall be My people.”

17 Therefore
“ Come out from among them
And be separate, says the Lord.
Do not touch what is unclean,
And I will receive you.”
18 “ I will be a Father to you,
And you shall be My sons and daughters,
Says the LORD Almighty.”

 

[fatbacker]

rsr, I was not acting out of experience not self righteousness, I came across several churches like this when I first got saved and I had no problem with knowing that it was wrong.

I made no assumtions about Marcos faith but as I said before and as Marcos said again that he has no opinion on the issue would tell me that he either does not read his bible or does not listen to sermons.

Yeah maybe my statement was pretty bold and forward but in these times I think you have to tell it like it is and make hard decisions and stand up and have an opinion on important moral issues. New christian or not you need to as Jesus put it " Let your yes me yes and your no mean no everything else is of the devil." In others words know what is right and stand up for it and form an opinion. At least if your intial response is not right and your open for correction God will give you the right answer. Then when you get it you stick to it. Just because I choose to shoot from the hip sometimes does not make me self righteous.

 

[rsr]

I see no biblical injunction or advice to "shoot from the hip," especially when you don't need to. Lots of folks can get hurt that way.

[ November 15, 2005, 07:07 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Marco]

Fatbacker, I will be reading my Bible for the answers. It's a big book but I'll get through it soon. I'll double up my reading. I haven't had a sermon on any of these issues. I have been to 2 Sunday services since I joined my new Church.

Anyway, I'll really think about what you said and I'm sure the answers will come to me. I appreciate you looking out for me. If you have any more advice please feel free. Peace.

 

[fatbacker]

StefanM says "I was applauding his willingness to search out those who are more knowledgeable about the Bible and its application to life. Do I personally need anyone to make decisions for me on this matter? NO. I voiced my opinion earlier in the thread. Do we need baby Christians going around making dogmatic assertions based on little knowledge? NO. When we have that, heresy grows. When one has just come to Christ, one has a lot to learn, and it takes time. Things are confusing."

Okay no offense to Marcos but coming to a forum as a new christian and trying to get advice from people he has never met is not so good either. Marcos needs to stick with the people in his church that he has seen walk the walk and are not affraid to show it.

But if some not all christians would realize that not every answer has to have a sweet smelling aroma to it that makes us feel all fuzzy inside we would all be in better shape and I believe more people would be in the churches in this country because the truth is being told and stood up for. If I have to be some user friendly don't step on anyones toes then I will have to be removed from this site. I have not judged anyone or accused anyone of anything

 

[StefanM]

Originally posted by fatbacker:
But if some not all christians would realize that not every answer has to have a sweet smelling aroma to it that makes us feel all fuzzy inside we would all be in better shape and I believe more people would be in the churches in this country because the truth is being told and stood up for.

If something is biblical, we need to stand for it, whether or not it sounds good to the world. Agreed on that point.

I think the reaction in this thread focused more on the tone of the message than the message itself. We don't need to tone down the message of the Bible, but we need to make sure we don't make it more offensive than the truth requires. We need to make sure that love is our priority (Col 3:16).

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by Marco:
Anyway, I will try to stay away from my new neighbors because I want no influences at this time other than from my church. Thanks for the help.

That may be ok for a short while, but I hope being a Christian will eventually encourage you to meet your neighbors of all stripes.

Baptists that grew up around the 1950s are generally pretty hostile to "liberal" Christians. The fundamentalist-modernist(liberal) controversy was one the primary issues in North American Christianity during that time period and fundamentalists have taken a hostile stance towards liberals because of it, considering them to be the essence of pure evil.

Yes, the United Church of Canada is generally a liberal denomination and is open to more liberal theologies and practices. While I may disagree with them on many of those issues, they still hold to many of the fundamental Christian beliefs and practices and are much more orthodox than the strange group that you were affiliated with before.

You'll find that in many issues in Christianity, there are disagreements among Christians, even among Baptists. Those on one side often call the other side words like heretic, evil, false teacher, etc.

[ November 15, 2005, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Marco:
Anyway, I will try to stay away from my new neighbors because I want no influences at this time other than from my church. Thanks for the help.

Is your faith that fragile and your God that small?

***Personal insult removed*** as per BB posting rules #'s 3 & 4

[ November 13, 2005, 10:14 PM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Gold Dragon]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Marco:
Anyway, I will try to stay away from my new neighbors because I want no influences at this time other than from my church. Thanks for the help.

Is your faith that fragile and your God that small?

</font>[/QUOTE]He is a new believer so yes his faith is in a fragile position right now. He isn't looking for a perfect church but is trying to minimize too many conflicting points of view. That is good for a beginning Christian to seek.

[ November 15, 2005, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: blackbird ]

 

[Petrel]

Good grief, gb93433, he just got saved a few months ago and he said above he's only attended two Sunday services at a legitimate church. Maybe you should do some more post reading before bashing people. That was really rude.