A common denominator

... AMEN ...SUFFICIENT UNTO THE DAY IS THE EVIL THEREOF

[ January 25, 2003, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: Gwyneth ]

 

A wise Baptist pastor used to say, back in the 20th century, "When a Baptist tells another what he or she must believe, that person ceases to be a Baptist."

I couldn't agree more.

 

...support abortion,

Because it's a biblical and ethical grey area.

...be against inerrancy,

Because they read the Bible and study responsible biblical scholarship.

...believe that the first 11 chapters of Genesis aren't literal,

Because they actually read them.

...encourage women to be pastors and deacons,

Because they don't want to stand in the way of God's call.

...literally separate church from state,

Because this is one of the core baptist distinctives.

...favor high and liturgical worship,

Because it ties local church worship to the larger Christian tradition.

...minimize the use of masculine references for God,

Because holy God has no sexual identity and calling God who is He, She, and Neither only "He" is theologically unhealthy.

...support special rights for homosexuals,

Protection from discrimination is not "special rights." Many Christians (including baptists) see Jesus' ministry as a radical call to social equality.

...emphasize social ministry over evangelism/church planting,

This is an easy trap to fall into when someone works closely with the oppressed and downtrodden. Working with and for those groups was obviously a huge part of Jesus' ministry; and it's easy to forget that it was not the sum of it.

...be completely against war,

Although I've never favored this kind of naivete; many, many good Christians have. It does seem most consistent with the biblical record of the teachings of Jesus - but like much of the gospel strikes me as impractical.

...and endorse a woman's right to abort her pregnancy.

Is there a reason you mentioned this one twice?

What is the tie which binds all these issues together?

Well, I don't believe all of those things but I support many of them. The short answer for me is that I believe in Christianity, not "Christianity which is synonymous with politically conservative American culture."

Joshua</font>[/QUOTE]Please tell me where you preach so i can make sure i stay very far away from you. Do you even read your Bible?

btw...what are you a chaplain of?

 

Nobody said we must all believe "EXACTLY" the same things, so why did you respond to that instead of what was said? Those were critical issues which illustrate which side of the line you are on. You can't have it both ways. Don't call yourself a Baptist and reject fundamental Baptist beliefs. Either you are on the Biblical side or on the liberal side. The traditional Baptist view of separation of church and state is nowhere near the present day perverted view of the spearation of church and state. It is folks like you and that Joshua character that are causing the disagreements. Most of the rest of us were in pretty much agreement except for little things. Don't get me wrong, you have the poliotical freedom to call yourself anything you want, just don't expect me to take you seriously when you say you "don't think Jesus is coming any time soon".

 

Actually, I would fall into that camp, too.

I've always believed that it was a shame that Baptists don't pay more attention to the liturgy.

 

"Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved," (Acts 16:31)

If you quote this verse to "tell another what he or she must believe," do you 'cease to be a Baptist?'

 

Yes. The key word is "must." A Baptist does not coerce folks into heaven. Simply quoting the verse is not coercion, but you qualified the statement by using the verse as a way to tell someone what they must believe.

 

You're right about the word "must". The only time a person "must" believe the scripture, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved", is if they want to go to Heaven!

Sue

 

Exxon: I'm not sure what kind of Baptists you are talking about; but I am a Baptist and I disagree with most of what you said I believe.

I do not support abortion.
(I am definitely pro-life)

Innerancy?
(I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God)

I believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis are literal.
(I believe the whole Bible is literal)

I do not encourage women to be pastors and deacons.
(I do not believe that is scriptural. I do not even encourage men to be pastors and deacons...they are called by God--not me)

I literally separate church from state.
(I believe the church needs to be protected from the state and vice versa)

I do not favor high and liturgical services.
(Give me that "Old Time Religion, that's good enough for me")

I do not minimize the masculine references for God.
(God is my father; why would I call Him mother?)

I do not support special rights for homosexuals.
(Homosexuality is a sin)

I do not emphasize social ministry over evangelism/church planting.
(I guess I will never be Politically Correct)

I am not completely against war.
(I don't think anyone 'likes' to go to war, but sometimes it is enevitable)

I do not endorse a woman's right to abort her pregnancy.
(This is redundant. It is the same as the first question, therefore it has already been answered)


Sue

 

To answer the major question(s)

...Because they see the bigger questions that the world poses to biblical christianity.

...Because they aren't willing to shout judgments from safe ground.

...Because they get out of their baptist ghetto and interact with the Christian tradition.

...Because their commentments are to God and not to baptists.

...Because honest reflection guided by the Holy Spirit will always challenge the accepted understanding of God.

....Because they are speaking a prophetic voice to a legalistic, unChristian, fundamental, and Pharisaic slant that baptists have taken, especially in the most recent years.

[ January 28, 2003, 02:22 PM: Message edited by: Daniel Dunivan ]

 

Daniel,

Thank you very much. Finally a post I can say 'Amen' to!



Joshua

 

Jesus caused disagreements, too, because he rejected the commomly held views of his faith tradition. You know, lots of folks are quietly dying in their faith because thay are told that they have to believe certain things, that they can't question, that they can't use their brains, and that its the inerrant way or no way. Then they clear their minds for a minute, read and re-read the gospels, and find that the gospel isn't as confined as some people say-that the fence some try to put "around it" is far too constricting of God's grace for our lives, just as it constricts people's hearts and minds.
God's grace is so large and wonderful...but not entirely understood. Sincere people often arrive at different answers. I haven't walked all the way around God and taken pictures, so I don't know who's always right. But I do know that there are as many good Christians that think like Joshua as there are those that think more conservatively. And many of them are called "Baptists".