A couple more simple facts.

[glad4mercy]

1. If Christ did not die for all men, it is impossible for those who He did not die for to reject the Gospel, (because the Gospel can only save people Christ died for.)

2. You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.

 

[TCassidy]

Are you under the impression the Gospel is all about you and not all about Christ?

 

[Yeshua1]

1. If Christ did not die for all men, it is impossible for those who He did not die for to reject the Gospel, (because the Gospel can only save people Christ died for.)

2. You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.

God indeed offers the Gospel to all people though!

 

[glad4mercy]

God indeed offers the Gospel to all people though!

Then it would follow that Jesus died for all. Because His substitutionary death on behalf of sinners is a big part of the Gospel. If He did not die for Joe Shmoe, then how can it be said that God is offering life to Joe Schmoe, when there is no salvation for Joe Schmoe outside Jesus dying on the cross.

 

[glad4mercy]

Are you under the impression the Gospel is all about you and not all about Christ?

It's not about me... it's about "for God so loved the world". Christ was already glorified before the Christ Event in time. HE NEEDS NOTHING FROM US. HE was already glorified, and He abased Himself, humbled Himself, NOT FOR HIMSELF. He humbled and abased Himself to save the lost. SO yes, the PURPOSE of the Gospel is to SAVE the LOST, not to add something to someone that IS ALREADY PERFECT and COMPLETE, (like persons in the Triune God)

What gave you the impression that God needed something from us? He wants our love, but He doesn't need it to find some kind of fulfillment. Praise and worship and service is all about God loving us and us loving Him because He first loved us.

 

[glad4mercy]

Are you under the impression the Gospel is all about you and not all about Christ?

The Gospel is about God loving the world in such a way that He sent His only begotten Son so that the lost through Him might be saved. Realizing that Jesus died, rose, and ascended to save sinners is not making the Gospel about oneself.

Nice strawman you built there.

So if you believe that Jesus died for you, rose for you, and is at the right hand interceding for you, does that mean you are claiming the Gospel is all about you?

When you can't reply to the post, just make up ridiculous accusations against the one who posted. Nice form.

 

[TCassidy]

The Gospel is about God loving the world in such a way that He sent His only begotten Son so that the lost through Him might be saved. Realizing that Jesus died, rose, and ascended to save sinners is not making the Gospel about oneself.

Nice strawman you built there.

So if you believe that Jesus died for you, rose for you, and is at the right hand interceding for you, does that mean you are claiming the Gospel is all about you?

When you can't reply to the post, just make up ridiculous accusations against the one who posted. Nice form.

You seem to have missed the point. The Gospel is about Christ dying for our sins. As that death, which we call the Atonement, is not offered to us, it is offered to God, we can't either accept or reject it. And God will, in turn, apply to to whomever He wills.

 

[TCassidy]

What gave you the impression that God needed something from us?

What, or who, gave you the impression I ever said or implied any such thing?

 

[TCassidy]

Then it would follow that Jesus died for all.

Yeah. That's what the bible says. 2 Corinthians 5:15 And that he died for all.

 

[Iconoclast]

1. If Christ did not die for all men, it is impossible for those who He did not die for to reject the Gospel, (because the Gospel can only save people Christ died for.)

2. You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.

The gospel is that God saves sinners In Christ.....we are all sinners,

15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

This is preached to all without exception.

 

[Yeshua1]

God offers to all the same Gospel;, its just those dead in their sins prefer to keep on rejecting His offer...

 

[Dave G]

1. If Christ did not die for all men, it is impossible for those who He did not die for to reject the Gospel, (because the Gospel can only save people Christ died for.)

2. You cannot reject something that is not offered to you.

1) With respect, I disagree.

They reject Christ because they are not His sheep ( John 10:26 )
They reject Christ because they hate Him ( John 3:19-20 )
They reject Christ because they are not "of God" ( John 8:47 )

There are many more reasons that mankind rejects the Gospel, but this one convinced me:

" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 )

Notice carefully that the preaching of the cross is considered foolishness to "them that perish". But to "us which ARE saved", it is the power of God. Then I read further into 1 Corinthians, and my eyes fell upon this:

" For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:22-24 )

To the Jews, preaching Christ crucified is a stumblingblock. To the Greeks ( Gentiles ), preaching Christ crucified is foolishness. But to them which are "called", both Jews and Greeks, preaching Christ crucified is the power of God and the wisdom of God.

So, mankind in general rejects the Gospel because they are perishing, while the believer evidences the fact that they are NOT going to Hell by their belief of the Gospel. Their faith as Christ's sheep is what sets them apart from the goats:

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." ( Hebrews 11:1 )

The fact that you have believed on Christ is the evidence that you are saved, sir. Praise God for His unspeakable gift.



2) I remember growing up in Baptist churches and hearing that God "offers salvation" to all men through Jesus Christ. They also taught that one must perform some action, or "go forward and pray a prayer", or "repent and be baptized" before a person could trust that they were among the saved. I believed this teaching for over 25 years, when I "went to church".

Then, after years of ignoring the men in the pulpits and simply trusting the Lord and His words, I made the discovery that the Gospel is not an offer, nor was it ever. It's only assumed to be.

Rather, it's a promise and a declaration. Let me demonstrate:

" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " ( John 3:16 )

This passage makes a declaration...it never portrays everlasting life as an offer. It clearly states that God did something, and that those that believe in His Son should not perish ( be cast into Hell ), but have everlasting life. What's more is, I cannot find one Scripture that ever quotes God as stating that salvation is like some kind of marketplace deal, in that, IF I believe, then God will reward me with the GIFT of eternal life. I know of plenty of people who read it and assume that it does, but is it ever technically phrased as a cooperative effort? If it does, I can't find it.



Now, if eternal life were something that a man or woman could gain by some effort of their own, wouldn't that make it a reward instead of a gift ( Romans 6:23 )?



May God bless you sir.

 

[Yeshua1]

1) With respect, I disagree.

They reject Christ because they are not His sheep ( John 10:26 )
They reject Christ because they hate Him ( John 3:19-20 )
They reject Christ because they are not "of God" ( John 8:47 )

There are many more reasons that mankind rejects the Gospel, but this one convinced me:

" For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:18 )

Notice carefully that the preaching of the cross is considered foolishness to "them that perish". But to "us which ARE saved", it is the power of God. Then I read further into 1 Corinthians, and my eyes fell upon this:

" For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 but we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 but unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." ( 1 Corinthians 1:22-24 )

To the Jews, preaching Christ crucified is a stumblingblock. To the Greeks ( Gentiles ), preaching Christ crucified is foolishness. But to them which are "called", both Jews and Greeks, preaching Christ crucified is the power of God and the wisdom of God.

So, mankind in general rejects the Gospel because they are perishing, while the believer evidences the fact that they are NOT going to Hell by their belief of the Gospel. Their faith as Christ's sheep is what sets them apart from the goats:

" Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." ( Hebrews 11:1 )

The fact that you have believed on Christ is the evidence that you are saved, sir. Praise God for His unspeakable gift.



2) I remember growing up in Baptist churches and hearing that God "offers salvation" to all men through Jesus Christ. They also taught that one must perform some action, or "go forward and pray a prayer", or "repent and be baptized" before a person could trust that they were among the saved. I believed this teaching for over 25 years, when I "went to church".

Then, after years of ignoring the men in the pulpits and simply trusting the Lord and His words, I made the discovery that the Gospel is not an offer, nor was it ever. It's only assumed to be.

Rather, it's a promise and a declaration. Let me demonstrate:

" For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. " ( John 3:16 )

This passage makes a declaration...it never portrays everlasting life as an offer. It clearly states that God did something, and that those that believe in His Son should not perish ( be cast into Hell ), but have everlasting life. What's more is, I cannot find one Scripture that ever quotes God as stating that salvation is like some kind of marketplace deal, in that, IF I believe, then God will reward me with the GIFT of eternal life. I know of plenty of people who read it and assume that it does, but is it ever technically phrased as a cooperative effort? If it does, I can't find it.



Now, if eternal life were something that a man or woman could gain by some effort of their own, wouldn't that make it a reward instead of a gift ( Romans 6:23 )?



May God bless you sir.

No one is being forced/caused by God to deny jesus, as they are doing that by themselves, as they are not of His flock, and cannot hear His voice, and deny Him to have any Lordship over them!

 

[Dave G]

No one is being forced/caused by God to deny jesus, as they are doing that by themselves, as they are not of His flock, and cannot hear His voice, and deny Him to have any Lordship over them!

I agree, sir.