A False Teaching on Christ’s Satisfaction Exposed

[Protestant]

Nothing you say denies what I have said.
Salvation is "the faith" which we believe.
The false teachers denied "the faith" which we believe.

Do you think John Gill would make it clear enough for you?
...............the doctrines of everlasting love, eternal election, the covenant of grace, particular redemption, regeneration by the grace of the Spirit.......

You make my point. 'The faith' is that which is saving, the faith which is believing Scriptural truth. All the doctrines listed above espoused by Gill are those doctrines which Pelagians/Arminians/non-Cals reject.

Furthermore, Barnes is in agreement.

And lastly, neither Barnes nor Gill were privy to beholding the carnal view of Christianity so prevalent today.

Had they lived in our generation I've no doubt the 'make a decision for Christ' Gospel would have caused them much sadness and righteous anger.

 

[DHK]

You make my point. 'The faith' is that which is saving, the faith which is believing Scriptural truth. All the doctrines listed above espoused by Gill are those doctrines which Pelagians/Arminians/non-Cals reject.

Furthermore, Barnes is in agreement.

And lastly, neither Barnes nor Gill were privy to beholding the carnal view of Christianity so prevalent today.

Had they lived in our generation I've no doubt the 'make a decision for Christ' Gospel would have caused them much sadness and righteous anger.

Excuse me for saying so, but I think you are just being silly now.
The argument was whether "faith" was innate or given of God, intangible, etc., as SG believed. Look back at his quotes.
He said:

The NIV, ESV, KJV, NKJV, YLT, WYC, WEB, RSV, NLT, NET, NCV, NASB, MEV, LEB, ISV, HCSB all state the word 'faith' as being the word used. In fact, the Greek word used is 'pisitis' and that rendering you are stating it to be can not be further from being correct. The faith, that true belief in God, comes from Him, and is not 'pent up' inside of man.

Faith in Jude 1:3 is not a "belief" in God, but rather The Faith in which we believe in as Gill so aptly defined it when he listed the various doctrines he believed in that made up "The Faith," as he would believe.
Whereas SG believes "faith" in that verse refers to "trust" confidence, etc.

It is not a matter of which doctrines make up "the faith." That was never what this discussion is about.
Obviously, I quoted Barnes, Gill and others to show that "the Faith" is a body of doctrine and not "faith" as in trust.

 

[SovereignGrace]

And exhort you. Literally, "exhorting you;" but as he points out the end of his counsel, the sentence ought to be thus expressed. What I have rendered, "to help the faith by contending," means the same as to strive in retaining the faith, and courageously to sustain the contrary assaults of Satan. For he reminds them that in order to persevere in the faith, various contests must be encountered and continual warfare maintained. He says that faith had been once delivered, that they might know that they had obtained it for this end, that they might never fail or fall away.

John Calvin

In the sense of being once for all given to the saints, the faith of Christians is not a variable quantity. It is not a thing which changes from day to day, as some seem to suppose, vainly imagining that fresh light is bestowed upon each new generation. No, the truth was delivered once for all, it was stereotyped, fixed; and it is for us to hold it fast as God has given it to us.

Charles Spurgeon

In all contending for the faith we must "keep ourselves in the love of God," the counterpart of which is that the love of God must be in us. We must love, even while we contend against the errors of apostatisers. We must love their souls even while we oppose their words and deplore their ways. Sometimes it is delicately difficult to keep these separate, but the love of Christ in our hearts will put wisdom on our lips....There are some who "contend" against us. Endless counter-contention with them is useless. But there are others who need "snatching out of the fire"; they have been deceived, and in one sense or another, i.e. by bewilderment, remorse, doubt or danger, are in the fire. And there an still others on whom we are to "have mercy with fear," i.e. being cautious lest in seeking to bring them back we should defile our own garments. (J Sidlow Baxter)

from precept austin site

by the "faith" is meant the doctrine of faith, in which sense it is used whenever faith is said to be preached, obeyed, departed, or erred from, or denied, or made shipwreck of, or when exhortations are made to stand fast, and continue in it, or to strive and contend for it, as here; and which is sometimes called the word of faith, the faith of the Gospel, the mystery of faith, or most holy faith, the common faith, and, as here, faith only; and designs the whole scheme of evangelical truths to be believed; such as the doctrine of the Trinity, the deity and sonship of Christ, the divinity and personality of the Spirit; what regards the state and condition of man by nature, as the doctrines of the imputation of Adam's sin to his posterity, the corruption of nature, and the impotence of men to that which is good; what concerns the acts of grace in the Father, Son, and Spirit, towards, and upon the sons of men; as the doctrines of everlasting love, eternal election, the covenant of grace, particular redemption, justification by the imputed righteousness of Christ, pardon and reconciliation by his blood, regeneration and sanctification by the grace of the Spirit, final perseverance, the resurrection of the dead, and the future glory of the saints with Christ. This is said to be "delivered to the saints": it was delivered by God the Father to Christ as Mediator, and by him to his apostles, who may more especially be meant by "the saints", or holy men; who were chosen to be holy, and to whom Christ was made sanctification, and who were sanctified by the Spirit of God; and this faith, being a most holy faith, is fit for holy men, and only proper to be delivered to them, and preached by them; and by them it was delivered to the churches, both by word and writing; and this delivery of it supposes that it is not an invention of men, that it is of God, and a gift of his, and given in trust in order to be kept, held forth, and held fast; and it was but "once" delivered, in opposition to the sundry times and divers manners in which the mind of God was formerly made known; and designs the uniformity, perfection, and continuance of the doctrine of faith; there is no alteration to be made in it, or addition to it; no new revelations are to be expected, it has been delivered all at once: and therefore should be "earnestly contended for"; for could it be lost, another could not be had; and the whole of it is to be contended for; not only the fundamentals, but the lesser matters of faith; and not things essential only, but also what are circumstantial to faith and religion; every truth, ordinance, and duty, and particularly the purity of faith, and its consistency: and this contention includes a care and solicitude for it, to have it, own it, and hold it fast, and adorn it; and for the preservation of it, and for the spread of it, and that it might be transmitted to posterity: and it denotes a conflict, a combat, or a fighting for it, a striving even to an agony: the persons to be contended with on account of it, are such who deny, or depreciate any of the Persons in the Godhead, the assertors of the purity and power of human nature, and the deniers of sovereign, efficacious, and persevering grace: the persons who are to contend with them are all the saints in general, to whom it is delivered; which they may do by bearing an experimental testimony to it, by praying for the continuance and success of it, by standing fast in one spirit in it, and by dying for it; and particularly the ministers of the Gospel, by preaching it boldly, openly, fully, and faithfully, by disputing for it, and writing in the defence of it, and by laying down their lives, when called for: the manner in which this is to be done, is "earnestly", heartily, in good earnest, and without deceit, zealously, and constantly.

John Gill

The faith contended for is from God, given to holy men. They are the ones who preach it, teach it, spread its news around. God works through the preaching, teaching, exhorting of it to quicken sinners.

 

[DHK]

John Calvin

Calvin said this (the part that you bolded)
the faith of Christians is not a variable quantity.

This refers to the Word of God which never varies. It has a definite "quantity" as in 66 books. Whereas a Christian's "faith" in Christ or otherwise is often up and down. Sometimes he is strong and sometimes not. It varies. But the Word never changes.

Charles Spurgeon

Spurgeon spoke about the importance of love when In all contending for the faith.
But he did not deny that "the faith" was the gospel or a body of truth which we believe. It seems fairly definite it was a body of doctrine, for he goes on to say:
There are some who "contend" against us.
That doesn't refer to trust but doctrine, teaching, "The Faith."

John Gill

The faith contended for is from God, given to holy men. They are the ones who preach it, teach it, spread its news around. God works through the preaching, teaching, exhorting of it to quicken sinners.

This doctrine is from God, for it is in God's Word.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

Look to your own self. We could say the same thing and perhaps often wonder about your beliefs.

No...you could not say the same thing at all. I examine as much teaching as I can and would never be so foolish as to say I cannot learn something new...That is unbelief and a failure to understand how God allows persons to believe in the first place....you have denied this often....you know how you say what we believe is "mystical". It is still a mystery to you:thumbsup:

Perhaps you are the one that remains in a state of unbelief, blind to the truth, and we wonder if there is any possibility of God ever opening your eyes.

God has saved me by his grace when I was not looking for it. This happens to many persons that God brings from light to darkness

I to borrow your wording.....would say that perhaps you are still in a realm of unbelief as you cannot grasp the basics of regeneration , but instead offer vain boasting about what you did....that others did not do....there will be no such vain boasting in heaven at all.

You are unteachable, as I have mentioned to you many times.

no...that belongs to you also.....remember...I once held firmly to dispensational error as you do now. I was not afraid to look at other teaching and am still open to it,unlike you who in unbelief declare no one can teach you.

Not only will you listen to my explanation, you will not listen to another's explanation or two or three other's from which I will quote to you on almost any given subject.

You cannot show anything you offer that I do not respond to.....yet you have not listened to or responded to those I and others offer you.....still.

Then you often have the audacity to think that I stand alone in my beliefs even though I quote other authorities. Unbelief? Hardly.

I read your posts....audacity has nothing to do with it. You repeat error everyday. Once in awhile you quote an orthodox person.....many times the quote does not agree with you....you do not understand Gill to well.

I am a non-Cal and you don't accept that.

Oh yes I do.....as others have told you....it is not given to everyone to understand these things.....you surely do not....I get that, looks like many see the same thing.....I would list their posts for you again...but you will censor it again.....but you know what I am talking about don't you:laugh:

Consider that Calvinism may be a false system started by a man who was deceived by one of the fathers of Roman Catholicism.

This is a diversion as Calvin did not formulate the 5 pts.
I notice not one of us brings him up...it is always you who do that:laugh:

You are certainly not in the position to lecture any one about humility. Please take a good hard look into the mirror before you speak on that subject.

You again try and deflect away the fact that it was you who said you cannot be taught anything, and the other day claimed your "church" is without error. It has to be infested with error:thumbsup:

What I have been taught?? What did I just tell you? I have been in the ministry for 40+ years. Do you think I am relying on what I "have been taught" or perhaps "what the Holy Spirit has taught me." I don't rely on what man (like Calvin) teaches.

This suggests you are not accountable to anyone...it reminds me of this;
3jn 1....vs9-10

I am not wrong.

everyone else thinks you are...

I have studied Greek. I am not as proficient in it as some others, but I do have plenty of resources at my disposal. One thing I learned many years ago. A person is able to make the Greek say anything he wants to say

.

AA. has shown you wrong...the links I gave show you wrong

The Greek is not the guideline by which we test scripture. It only adds one small dimension to our interpretation of scripture.

dead wrong

There are other factors to take into consideration. These other factors are often what Calvinists miss because of their own pre-disposed bias.

I have found that only the Cals are consistent and through.

 

[Protestant]

Excuse me for saying so, but I think you are just being silly now.
The argument was whether "faith" was innate or given of God, intangible, etc., as SG believed. Look back at his quotes.
He said:

Faith in Jude 1:3 is not a "belief" in God, but rather The Faith in which we believe in as Gill so aptly defined it when he listed the various doctrines he believed in that made up "The Faith," as he would believe.
Whereas SG believes "faith" in that verse refers to "trust" confidence, etc.

It is not a matter of which doctrines make up "the faith." That was never what this discussion is about.
Obviously, I quoted Barnes, Gill and others to show that "the Faith" is a body of doctrine and not "faith" as in trust.

Au contraire, SG was right on point. Neither Jude nor Barnes nor Gill nor Spurgeon understood saving faith in the Gospel of Grace to be wrought by carnal, spiritually dead men.

All agree that which is flesh will only produce fleshly, carnal faith.

Carnal faith is a lascivious faith, sensual, pleasing to the flesh.

Today's version of Christianity is replete with such faith.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Calvin said this (the part that you bolded)
the faith of Christians is not a variable quantity.

This refers to the Word of God which never varies. It has a definite "quantity" as in 66 books. Whereas a Christian's "faith" in Christ or otherwise is often up and down. Sometimes he is strong and sometimes not. It varies. But the Word never changes.

Spurgeon spoke about the importance of love when In all contending for the faith.
But he did not deny that "the faith" was the gospel or a body of truth which we believe. It seems fairly definite it was a body of doctrine, for he goes on to say:
There are some who "contend" against us.
That doesn't refer to trust but doctrine, teaching, "The Faith."


This doctrine is from God, for it is in God's Word.

Everything I posted, everyone I quoted, are in lock-step with each other. Contending for the faith that was delivered to the saints is belief through God's word. Romans 10:17 piggybacks from this monsieur. Having faith in God's word. God regenerates sinners via His gospel.

 

[DHK]

Everything I posted, everyone I quoted, are in lock-step with each other. Contending for the faith that was delivered to the saints is belief through God's word. Romans 10:17 piggybacks from this monsieur. Having faith in God's word. God regenerates sinners via His gospel.

1. "Contending for the faith that was delivered to the saints is belief through God's word."
--I never denied such a statement. "for the faith" simply refers to that body of doctrine which we believe. At the beginning of this discussion I don't think you agreed with that statement.

2. "God regenerates sinners via His gospel."
I don't deny this either.

Now I can show you some that equate regeneration and salvation;
Others that say regeneration and salvation take place at the same time.

If the above are true, and as you said, "regeneration comes via His gospel," then the gospel precedes regeneration. If the gospel precedes regeneration then faith in the gospel must precede regeneration also. Regeneration and salvation are simultaneous. They can't be separated. One must be able to put their faith in the gospel in order to be regenerated/saved.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

 

[Rebel]

Calvinist beliefs are only 500 years old. The church is 2000 years old, four times as old as Calvinism. I'll go with what the early churches believed.

 

[Iconoclast]

Calvinist beliefs are only 500 years old. The church is 2000 years old, four times as old as Calvinism. I'll go with what the early churches believed.

Moses was a Calvinist

 

[DHK]

Moses was a Calvinist

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
--The above is the heart of the Gospel.
Over and over again the Bible repeats "that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."
This is not only the theme of the Gospel of John:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is also one of the main purposes of his first epistle:
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It requires faith. It requires choice. It is repeated over and over again in the Word. And nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace taught--not even one verse. Apart from a few verses taken out of context in John chapter 6, Irresistible Grace is not taught and flies in the face of the totality of Scripture. It, like the other points of TULIP, is absolutely contrary to the teachings of the Word of God.

 

[Protestant]

And nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace taught--not even one verse.

A few relevant examples of Irresistible Grace:

1. The calling of Peter, James and John……………..Luke 5:1-11

And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men.
11 And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, and followed him.

2. The calling of Andrew, Philip and Nathanael……………John 1:35-49

Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

3. The calling of the Apostle Paul………….Acts 9: 1-8

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me." (John 10:27)

 

[SovereignGrace]

1. "Contending for the faith that was delivered to the saints is belief through God's word."
--I never denied such a statement. "for the faith" simply refers to that body of doctrine which we believe. At the beginning of this discussion I don't think you agreed with that statement.

The faith was 'pistis' in the Greek, monsieur. Faith comes by hearing God's word, yes. Yet, unless their ears have been enlightened, their heart transplanted by God, and their eyes open, the gospel goes 'WOOOOSH'.

2. "God regenerates sinners via His gospel."
I don't deny this either.

Hallelujah.

Now I can show you some that equate regeneration and salvation;

Not I.

Others that say regeneration and salvation take place at the same time.

:thumbsup:

If the above are true, and as you said, "regeneration comes via His gospel," then the gospel precedes regeneration.

Yes. It does.

If the gospel precedes regeneration then faith in the gospel must precede regeneration also.

Gospel heard. God working through the gospel quickens sinners to life. Gospel then illumines and faith and repentance follow. It is that simple, mon ami.

Regeneration and salvation are simultaneous.

Yes. It is.

They can't be separated.

Yes. Correct.

One must be able to put their faith in the gospel in order to be regenerated/saved.

Uhhh, you have that backwards, monsieur. God quickens the sinner through the gospel. Regeneration is God's quickening the sinner unto life. This quickening comes with faith and repentance. Gospel, regeneration(faith and repentance comes along, too) and conversion.

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved,

Wonderful verse. :thumbsup:

 

[DHK]

A few relevant examples of Irresistible Grace:

1. The calling of Peter, James and John……………..Luke 5:1-11

And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men.
11 And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, and followed him.

2. The calling of Andrew, Philip and Nathanael……………John 1:35-49

Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

3. The calling of the Apostle Paul………….Acts 9: 1-8

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

"My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me." (John 10:27)

Irresistible Grace--nope--not even one verse.
You live in Texas as far as I can see. Right?
So, if I am driving through that state, find out what your phone number is, phone you, and ask you if you would like to meet me for a cup of coffee?
Would you have a choice to say yes or no?
Or would that Irresistible Grace say you have to meet me, and you have absolutely no choice. God controls you like a puppet. That decision was foreknown before the foundation of the world. Because it was foreknown, it was decreed. You have to meet me. God has already decreed it. His grace is irresistible. You have no choice in this matter. That is how Calvinism works isn't it?
No free will--not even for a cup of coffee??

 

[SovereignGrace]

Irresistible Grace--nope--not even one verse.
You live in Texas as far as I can see. Right?
So, if I am driving through that state, find out what your phone number is, phone you, and ask you if you would like to meet me for a cup of coffee?
Would you have a choice to say yes or no?
Or would that Irresistible Grace say you have to meet me, and you have absolutely no choice. God controls you like a puppet. That decision was foreknown before the foundation of the world. Because it was foreknown, it was decreed. You have to meet me. God has already decreed it. His grace is irresistible. You have no choice in this matter. That is how Calvinism works isn't it?
No free will--not even for a cup of coffee??

You are comparing the calling of God with calling up someone for a cup of java?

Look at the verses[passage] Protestant used to support his position:

Quoted by Protestant

1. The calling of Peter, James and John……………..Luke 5:1-11

And Jesus said unto Simon, Fear not; from henceforth thou shalt catch men.
11 And when they had brought their ships to land, they forsook all, and followed him.

Jesus did not kindly ask them, "Hey, would you guys like to come and follow Me? I will give you power to raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, give hearing to the deaf, and after all of that you will be slayed for My name's sake. Doesn't that just fill peachy keen?" He told them to "get up and follow Me and I will make you fishers of men."

Quoted by Protestant

2. The calling of Andrew, Philip and Nathanael……………John 1:35-49

Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

43 The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and findeth Philip, and saith unto him, Follow me.

Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Again, there was no asking, just telling them to follow Him.

Quoted by Protestant

3. The calling of the Apostle Paul………….Acts 9: 1-8

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

Jesus never asked Saul's permission to shine that Light to him, causing him to fall off his horse. Jesus told Saul what needed to be done, and he did it.

 

[SovereignGrace]

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
--The above is the heart of the Gospel.

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

Over and over again the Bible repeats "that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

This is not only the theme of the Gospel of John:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

It is also one of the main purposes of his first epistle:
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Why yes it is. :thumbsup:

It requires faith.

Why yes it does.

It requires choice.

This is where you run of the skids, monsieur. No one chooses to believe, no one chooses to have faith or reject it. People either have faith...saving faith...or they do not. Here are some verses you guys misapply.


But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”[Jos. 24:15] Boy that sure looks like an appealing choice, mon ami. "If serving the Lord seems undesirable to you", boy that sure looks like a free will choice. If serving the Lord seemed undesirable to me, I sure would not serve Him. Would you?

The Spirit and the bride say, “Come!” And let the one who hears say, “Come!” Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.[Rev. 22:17] Here is another verse where the call is going out to those who are thirsty and who can gear the Spirit and Bride say 'Come!' Those who are not thirsty will never come and drink and those who do not drink will never have "Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.”[Jn 7:38] Those who drink of this water will "but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”[Jn 4:13b] The Spirit and Bride saying 'Come!' is not a questionnaire but a command. Those who hear and are thirsty will come and be filled.


For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.[Jn 3:16] Here is a verse that should not cause any problem, but it does. God so loved the world(the encompassing globe and not every single person who ever lived) that He sent His Son to die for those who believe. If He loved everybody the same, then there is no special love for His sheep. Where is this love as He is turning them over into the lake of fire? Where is His love while He is “I have trodden the winepress alone; from the nations no one was with me. I trampled them in my anger and trod them down in my wrath; their blood spattered my garments, and I stained all my clothing. It was for me the day of vengeance; the year for me to redeem had come."?Isa 63:3,4] Yes God is love. But who are those that truly love Him in a reciprocated fashion? It is those who We love because he first loved us.[1 Jn 4:19] Why do they love Him? Because it is thusly Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Those who love God are those that a) God has borne them of His love b) God first loved them. Now, if God truly loved everybody the same, then there would be none lost. Because if we love God we “If you love me, keep my commands."[Jn 14:15]

It is repeated over and over again in the Word. And nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace taught--not even one verse. Apart from a few verses taken out of context in John chapter 6, Irresistible Grace is not taught and flies in the face of the totality of Scripture. It, like the other points of TULIP, is absolutely contrary to the teachings of the Word of God.

And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.[Rom. 8:28-30] All of this is via God's working in sinners lives, monsieur.

He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.[Tit. 3:5] He saved us by His mercy. Also read Romans 9:16.

He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.[2 Tim. 1:9] Again, it was not because of anything we did, but what He did for us.

Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.[John 1:12,13] Again, nothing that man did, but what God did for man.


Yes, there are many verses supporting irresistible grace if you are truly willing to look for them.

 

[Iconoclast]

1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
--The above is the heart of the Gospel.
Over and over again the Bible repeats "that we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ."
This is not only the theme of the Gospel of John:

Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

It is also one of the main purposes of his first epistle:
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

It requires faith. It requires choice. It is repeated over and over again in the Word. And nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace taught--not even one verse. Apart from a few verses taken out of context in John chapter 6, Irresistible Grace is not taught and flies in the face of the totality of Scripture. It, like the other points of TULIP, is absolutely contrary to the teachings of the Word of God.

These are wonderful verses dealing with the promise of God....for every single believing person.
Thankfully God's grace for His Covenant people is both effectual and irresistible.
In Acts 13:48 we see the results of those who were ordained to life.
In 2 tim1:9 grace was given to them before the world was.....in time this grace is quite irrestible as every single one of them comes to Jesus.

Yes......they exercise faith being made willing as psalm 110 promises.
Yes. ....they also choose Jesus because He first has loved His elect when they were unlovely.

Here is a hint for you DHK.....grace that is resisted...like the reprobate in Acts 7....is not IRRESTIBLE GRACE.......because it is always resisted. ....

Anytime anyone believes it is because like Moses...the people could do nothing, but stand still and see the salvation of God.

Are you saying that you have not experienced this irresistible grace yet. It.must be hard to deny it exists and yet experience what you do not believe????

 

[Yeshua1]

Irresistible Grace--nope--not even one verse.
You live in Texas as far as I can see. Right?
So, if I am driving through that state, find out what your phone number is, phone you, and ask you if you would like to meet me for a cup of coffee?
Would you have a choice to say yes or no?
Or would that Irresistible Grace say you have to meet me, and you have absolutely no choice. God controls you like a puppet. That decision was foreknown before the foundation of the world. Because it was foreknown, it was decreed. You have to meet me. God has already decreed it. His grace is irresistible. You have no choice in this matter. That is how Calvinism works isn't it?
No free will--not even for a cup of coffee??

You do know that calvinism does not teach that we are puppets though, as God is the One that saves us, but that we are all also accountible to him for our actions and deeds, correct?

 

[Protestant]

Irresistible Grace--nope--not even one verse.
You live in Texas as far as I can see. Right?
So, if I am driving through that state, find out what your phone number is, phone you, and ask you if you would like to meet me for a cup of coffee?
Would you have a choice to say yes or no?
Or would that Irresistible Grace say you have to meet me, and you have absolutely no choice. God controls you like a puppet. That decision was foreknown before the foundation of the world. Because it was foreknown, it was decreed. You have to meet me. God has already decreed it. His grace is irresistible. You have no choice in this matter. That is how Calvinism works isn't it?
No free will--not even for a cup of coffee??

How often we have heard our adversaries claim our biblical perspective makes mankind nothing but puppets controlled by the Great Heavenly Puppeteer.

Hank Hanegraaff, the self-proclaimed ‘Bible Answer Man,’ has written the following statement in his best seller, The Complete Bible Answer Book.

(If you have a Bible question, Hank will give you the complete answer. His knowledge and understanding of spiritual issues knows no bounds.)

Furthermore, without choice, love is meaningless. God is neither a cosmic rapist who forces his love on people, nor a cosmic puppeteer who forces people to love him. Instead, God, the personification of love, grants us the freedom of choice. Without such freedom, we would be little more than preprogrammed robots. http://www.equip.org/bible_answers/why-does-god-allow-bad-things-to-happen-to-good-people/

Hank is an in-your-face Pelagian.

His god is his free will which is sovereign over his life.

The King of kings and Lord of lords bows in submission to the choices Hank makes without interference so that Hank’s sovereign will may be free of all encumbrances, including the sovereign will of God.

But Scripture says otherwise.

A man's heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps. (Proverbs 16:9)

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased. (Psalm 115:3)

Apart from me you can do nothing. (John 15:5)

The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will. (Proverbs 21:1)

Those of us who believe in God’s sovereign election of grace are extremely humbled and eternally grateful that our God has graciously and mercifully pulled us out of the fires of destruction to which we were blindly and willingly headed.

We are ever so mindful that those who worship the idol of their free will may well be among those whom God has passed by, leaving them with freedom from His saving graces in Christ, allowing them to haplessly continue on the road to destruction where they are blindly and willingly headed.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK;

It requires faith. It requires choice.

Nato not have either of these things.That is why God has to work in His people effectually:applause:

It is repeated over and over again in the Word.

Yes God teaches this truth all over the bible. People who God allows can see it.
Others cannot see it....they can be religious but not savingly come to Jesus.

And nowhere in the Bible is the doctrine of Irresistible Grace taught--not even one verse

.

We see it everywhere in scripture...You must not understand the terms you are trying to use....let me help you-

http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc10.html

1._____ Those whom God hath predestinated unto life, he is pleased in his appointed, and accepted time, effectually to call, by his Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death in which they are by nature, to grace and salvation by Jesus Christ;

a]enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God;

b]taking away their heart of stone,

c]and giving unto them a heart of flesh;

d]renewing their wills,

e]and by his almighty power determining them to that which is good,

f]and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ;

g]yet so as they come most freely,

h]being made willing by his grace.

These men saw it and wrote about it for us.....very clear.

Apart from a few verses taken out of context in John chapter 6

,

:laugh: No...as long as John 6 is in the bible...your futile objections are relegated to the garbage bin:laugh:

Interesting...that you know to mention Jn 6 in this discussion and yet seek to obscure it as you know it is fatal to your carnal reasoning......for 40 years you have missed the truth of this passage


All that the Father gives to Me.....SHALL come to Me.

All that are GIVEN.....COME

Jesus seeks and SAVES them......not one is lost.....That is wonderful. WHY anyone would attempt to resist this truth is insanity.

We look in EZK 34.....God tells Ezekiel His Divine perspective on redemptive history...God explains that He himself is going to irresitably save His sheep....

He is not going to try and do it...oh no...He is going to do it;

6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek after them.
7 Therefore, ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

8 As I live, saith the Lord God, surely because my flock became a prey, and my flock became meat to every beast of the field, because there was no shepherd, neither did my shepherds search for my flock, but the shepherds fed themselves, and fed not my flock;

9 Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word of the Lord;

10 Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more;

for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

11 For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

13 And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country.

14 I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountains of Israel shall their fold be: there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fat pasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel.

15 I will feed my flock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God.

16 I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up that which was broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.

17 And as for you, O my flock, thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I judge between cattle and cattle, between the rams and the he goats.

18 Seemeth it a small thing unto you to have eaten up the good pasture, but ye must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to have drunk of the deep waters, but ye must foul the residue with your feet?

19 And as for my flock, they eat that which ye have trodden with your feet; and they drink that which ye have fouled with your feet.

20 Therefore thus saith the Lord God unto them; Behold, I, even I, will judge between the fat cattle and between the lean cattle.

21 Because ye have thrust with side and with shoulder, and pushed all the diseased with your horns, till ye have scattered them abroad;

22 Therefore will I save my flock, and they shall no more be a prey; and I will judge between cattle and cattle.

23 And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24 And I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the Lord have spoken it.

25 And I will make with them a covenant of peace, and will cause the evil beasts to cease out of the land: and they shall dwell safely in the wilderness, and sleep in the woods.

26 And I will make them and the places round about my hill a blessing; and I will cause the shower to come down in his season; there shall be showers of blessing.
27 And the tree of the field shall yield her fruit, and the earth shall yield her increase, and they shall be safe in their land, and shall know that I am the Lord, when I have broken the bands of their yoke, and delivered them out of the hand of those that served themselves of them.

28 And they shall no more be a prey to the heathen, neither shall the beast of the land devour them; but they shall dwell safely, and none shall make them afraid.

29 And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more.

30 Thus shall they know that I the Lord their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord God.

31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord God


If a person cannot see that all the action here is taken by God himself and it is effectually completed....they might need to be saved to have spiritual eyesight.