A family members church not preaching the gospel to the unsaved unless...

[Scott Downey]

they ask questions.
Son in law and daughter go there. So in talking to him, he says when people hear about Christ they instantly shutdown, want nothing to do with you, Christ, or the church. The claim is that preaching does not work. So the decision was made not to tell them specifically anything gospel related, but on community outreaches or oversea trips do good works only, like build someones house. They are going to Bahamas to work on cleaning up somewhere in the islands, they are not going to preach anything. Instead they will just gift their time and other items to help the people who live there in effect show how they are Christians by their love and good works for one another.

What bothers me most about this approach of just showering the unsaved with various gifts, it does not match up with examples from scripture of preaching Christ's name among the unsaved, which their pastor says does not work, and his fellow workers agree with him. I know a lot more about these issues with that church being right close to the situation. One is the pastor preaches that the church generally is a failure, and has failed to evangelize the world and that is why Christ has not returned as he can not because the church has not been able to Christianize the entire world, which he teaches is a requirement for the return of Christ. Years ago i had a falling out with the pastor over things like this. And slowly I have seen his teaching changing peoples thinking.

Another doctrine that has come up is that scripture is not inspired by God, it is just words written by christian men. Inspiration not meaning by revelation, just thinking of men about God, it is not actually God's word. This kind of thinking means you dont need scripture to determine the truth of your life and practice, and of course the other is taught that there is no future prophetic fulfillment left in scripture as they are preterists.

 

[Humpty Dumpty]

Sounds like the Shepard is leading his flock directly into the wolves mouth.

People who are afraid of spreading the Gospel because fearing that they will turn people off or being too “churchy” are apart of the problem.

 

[37818]

they ask questions.
Son in law and daughter go there. So in talking to him, he says when people hear about Christ they instantly shutdown, want nothing to do with you, Christ, or the church. The claim is that preaching does not work. So the decision was made not to tell them specifically anything gospel related, but on community outreaches or oversea trips do good works only, like build someones house. They are going to Bahamas to work on cleaning up somewhere in the islands, they are not going to preach anything. Instead they will just gift their time and other items to help the people who live there in effect show how they are Christians by their love and good works for one another.

What bothers me most about this approach of just showering the unsaved with various gifts, it does not match up with examples from scripture of preaching Christ's name among the unsaved, which their pastor says does not work, and his fellow workers agree with him. I know a lot more about these issues with that church being right close to the situation. One is the pastor preaches that the church generally is a failure, and has failed to evangelize the world and that is why Christ has not returned as he can not because the church has not been able to Christianize the entire world, which he teaches is a requirement for the return of Christ. Years ago i had a falling out with the pastor over things like this. And slowly I have seen his teaching changing peoples thinking.

Another doctrine that has come up is that scripture is not inspired by God, it is just words written by christian men. Inspiration not meaning by revelation, just thinking of men about God, it is not actually God's word. This kind of thinking means you dont need scripture to determine the truth of your life and practice, and of course the other is taught that there is no future prophetic fulfillment left in scripture as they are preterists.

Preterists or not, Jesus gave us instructions. The one here, for me, which comes to mind, ". . . Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. . . ." -- Matthew 5:16. So while their tactic of not preaching the gospel out right, unless asked some questions first maybe a very good tactic, unless it is known the reason for their good works is Chirst, the light, we are not letting our light shine.

 

[Scott Downey]

Preterists or not, Jesus gave us instructions. The one here, for me, which comes to mind, ". . . Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. . . ." -- Matthew 5:16. So while their tactic of not preaching the gospel out right, unless asked some questions first maybe a very good tactic, unless it is known the reason for their good works is Christ, the light, we are not letting our light shine.

My expectation is they will experience what Christ said in John 6, and this approach of theirs won't be effective without also the hearing of the Word.
By preaching is how people get saved. You can do many good works but it does not save anyone, whether it is a good thing to do or not. Jesus told the crowds they followed Him around because He filled their bellies with bread.
John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

My issue with them has always been they put the emphasis on the things that can not save anyone. They look just like Pelagians denying it is only the grace of God that saves us. You would never hear about the grace of God like that in any of their sermons. It was always about being and doing good things, getting out in the community like a religious social justice warrior. I do also understand not everyone is called to be a preacher, but to say it flat out fails is not right to be saying that.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

they ask questions.
Son in law and daughter go there. So in talking to him, he says when people hear about Christ they instantly shutdown, want nothing to do with you, Christ, or the church. The claim is that preaching does not work. So the decision was made not to tell them specifically anything gospel related, but on community outreaches or oversea trips do good works only, like build someones house. They are going to Bahamas to work on cleaning up somewhere in the islands, they are not going to preach anything. Instead they will just gift their time and other items to help the people who live there in effect show how they are Christians by their love and good works for one another.

What bothers me most about this approach of just showering the unsaved with various gifts, it does not match up with examples from scripture of preaching Christ's name among the unsaved, which their pastor says does not work, and his fellow workers agree with him. I know a lot more about these issues with that church being right close to the situation. One is the pastor preaches that the church generally is a failure, and has failed to evangelize the world and that is why Christ has not returned as he can not because the church has not been able to Christianize the entire world, which he teaches is a requirement for the return of Christ. Years ago i had a falling out with the pastor over things like this. And slowly I have seen his teaching changing peoples thinking.

Another doctrine that has come up is that scripture is not inspired by God, it is just words written by christian men. Inspiration not meaning by revelation, just thinking of men about God, it is not actually God's word. This kind of thinking means you dont need scripture to determine the truth of your life and practice, and of course the other is taught that there is no future prophetic fulfillment left in scripture as they are preterists.

That pastor is a false teacher and a wolf. He devours his flock with his false doctrine, and great will be his condemnation at the Judgment when he cries "Lord, Lord!"

 

[37818]

My expectation is they will experience what Christ said in John 6, and this approach of theirs won't be effective without also the hearing of the Word.
By preaching is how people get saved. You can do many good works but it does not save anyone, whether it is a good thing to do or not. Jesus told the crowds they followed Him around because He filled their bellies with bread.
John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

My issue with them has always been they put the emphasis on the things that can not save anyone. They look just like Pelagians denying it is only the grace of God that saves us. You would never hear about the grace of God like that in any of their sermons. It was always about being and doing good things, getting out in the community like a religious social justice warrior. I do also understand not everyone is called to be a preacher, but to say it flat out fails is not right to be saying that.

Another doctrine that has come up is that scripture is not inspired by God, it is just words written by christian men. Inspiration not meaning by revelation, just thinking of men about God, it is not actually God's word.

That is the real problem. John 8:47.

 

[Yeshua1]

they ask questions.
Son in law and daughter go there. So in talking to him, he says when people hear about Christ they instantly shutdown, want nothing to do with you, Christ, or the church. The claim is that preaching does not work. So the decision was made not to tell them specifically anything gospel related, but on community outreaches or oversea trips do good works only, like build someones house. They are going to Bahamas to work on cleaning up somewhere in the islands, they are not going to preach anything. Instead they will just gift their time and other items to help the people who live there in effect show how they are Christians by their love and good works for one another.

What bothers me most about this approach of just showering the unsaved with various gifts, it does not match up with examples from scripture of preaching Christ's name among the unsaved, which their pastor says does not work, and his fellow workers agree with him. I know a lot more about these issues with that church being right close to the situation. One is the pastor preaches that the church generally is a failure, and has failed to evangelize the world and that is why Christ has not returned as he can not because the church has not been able to Christianize the entire world, which he teaches is a requirement for the return of Christ. Years ago i had a falling out with the pastor over things like this. And slowly I have seen his teaching changing peoples thinking.

Another doctrine that has come up is that scripture is not inspired by God, it is just words written by christian men. Inspiration not meaning by revelation, just thinking of men about God, it is not actually God's word. This kind of thinking means you dont need scripture to determine the truth of your life and practice, and of course the other is taught that there is no future prophetic fulfillment left in scripture as they are preterists.

It sounds like they have became the ultimate "seeker friendly" church!

 

[Scott Downey]

It sounds like they have became the ultimate "seeker friendly" church!

Yes, they are into that Warren guy, or the leadership was, passed out his books for free. There is a collection of those 'apostle type' religious confederates of Warren's they always talked well of. It did not matter when anything they said went against scripture, they are also well into the NAR leadership doctrines. I know they are Dominionists and buy into it all the way. The pastor says Christians have to be ruling and reigning over the entire world in I suppose a theocracy and then Christ will be able to return. All their complex doctrines are against the scriptures.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, they are into that Warren guy, or the leadership was, passed out his books for free. There is a collection of those 'apostle type' religious confederates of Warren's they always talked well of. It did not matter when anything they said went against scripture, they are also well into the NAR leadership doctrines. I know they are Dominionists and buy into it all the way.

They must have ripped out the Great Commission from their Bibles!

 

[Scott Downey]

They must have ripped out the Great Commission from their Bibles!

One thing he teaches, things will get better and better till the Lord returns, and there will be no fiery judgement at the end because the whole world will have been dominionated over by christians ruling and reigning over all things. Except that is not how the bible goes. The ruling and reigning only happens for Christians after Christ returns, and when He does return there is a fiery judgement against an evil unbelieving world. Entirely opposite of what he preaches. It just went on and on and on all the weird doctrines.
Of course if you believe all of Revelation was fulfilled in the first century and we are living in the new heavens and new earth today, then there's no room for worse and worse in your theology.
Scripture says worse and worse until the end, not better and better.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Example of the truth when Christ returns. A fiery destruction.
2 thessalonians 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

 

[Yeshua1]

One thing he teaches, things will get better and better till the Lord returns, and there will be no fiery judgement at the end because the whole world will have been dominionated over by christians ruling and reigning over all things. Except that is not how the bible goes. The ruling and reigning only happens for Christians after Christ returns, and when He does return there is a fiery judgement against an evil unbelieving world. Entirely opposite of what he preaches. It just went on and on and on all the weird doctrines.
Of course if you believe all of Revelation was fulfilled in the first century and we are living in the new heavens and new earth today, then there's no room for worse and worse in your theology.
Scripture says worse and worse until the end, not better and better.
2 Timothy 3:13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Example of the truth when Christ returns. A fiery destruction.
2 thessalonians 1
3 We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, 4 so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, 5 which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; 6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, 7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

Sounds like a version of kingdom Now, which is postmil, but on charismatic steroids!

 

[Scott Downey]

Sounds like a version of kingdom Now, which is postmil, but on charismatic steroids!

Yes, very much so.
The scripture is the answer to heresy. But some very religious people will not hear you when you point that out to them. Even so we have many disputes and contentions in churches among various factions which will be there until the end.

You know contentions and dissensions are disqualifiers for inheriting the kingdom, not just heresies. If you look up the meaning and applications of those 2 words, then you can see how that is so. These are the works of the flesh. People who practice them show they are not of the Father God as they do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, so of course they will not be saved.

Contentions and dissensions as works of the flesh would be those things that are fighting against the truth, not for the truth. Christians are to contend for the faith.

16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.


Galatians 5:19-21 New King James Version (NKJV)
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

https://wikidiff.com/contention/dissension

 

[Washad]

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
How shall they hear without a preacher?
Go ye therefore into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
Preach the Word.
There are so many more. I know the "lifestyle evangelism"/ social gospel is growing in popularity but this is going to the extreme.
In denying the inspiration of Scripture they have effectively cut off any objections to their teaching. They will appeal to emotion and "making an impact on their world".
Very sad and frustrating for you I am sure. I have prayed for your family caught up in this. May the Lord grant you wisdom as you seek to expose the error of this wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My expectation is they will experience what Christ said in John 6, and this approach of theirs won't be effective without also the hearing of the Word.
By preaching is how people get saved. You can do many good works but it does not save anyone, whether it is a good thing to do or not. Jesus told the crowds they followed Him around because He filled their bellies with bread.
John 6
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

1 Corinthians 15
9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 Peter 4:6
For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

My issue with them has always been they put the emphasis on the things that can not save anyone. They look just like Pelagians denying it is only the grace of God that saves us. You would never hear about the grace of God like that in any of their sermons. It was always about being and doing good things, getting out in the community like a religious social justice warrior. I do also understand not everyone is called to be a preacher, but to say it flat out fails is not right to be saying that.

Let me understand you.... preaching gets you saved? Is that your premise?

 

[Washad]

Another thought.
Being warm, being full, feeling secure and sheltered do not lead to salvation. Nor do they naturally lead a person to consider their souls. Actually the opposite is true. Comforts enjoyed or just bare necessities in place can and will lead to temporal contentment. The psalmist warned of this. The salvation army had as its motto " soup, soap, salvation". If you remove the salvation message, if the Gospel is not preached, and the Name of Jesus glorified we just send people on their way to Hell with a full belly, warm clothes, and a damed soul.
This preaching is simply declaring the Gospel. Preaching may not be from a pulpit, it may not be shouted from a street corner. Preaching can be as simple as a one on one conversation in a soup line. But God has chosen the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Yeshua1]

Let me understand you.... preaching gets you saved? Is that your premise?

If there is no Gospel message given, how can they be saved?