A Flawed Approach to Romans 13?

[poncho]

Obama is 100% against Jesus Christ. The only angry person I see is Zaac.

That's true this has been a very calm thread. Zaac is just upset because no matter how hard he tries he can't whip us into believing an apple is an orange. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Zaac]

Obama is 100% against Jesus Christ. The only angry person I see is Zaac.

:laugh: Now if we can just get all of your other angry friends to come in pat you on the back and agree, that'll turn it into a fact.:thumbs:

 

[Zaac]

That's true this has been a very calm thread. Zaac is just upset because no matter how hard he tries he can't whip us into believing an apple is an orange. :smilewinkgrin:

Again I'm saying rulers and authorities are people as made clear in Rom. 13.

You're claiming it's the Constitution.

It's apparent that you're the one trying to claim that an apple is an orange. :laugh:

When politics becomes an idol for ya, it can make you do some crazy things.

 

[righteousdude2]

Ditto!

Again I'm saying rulers and authorities are people as made clear in Rom. 13.

You're claiming it's the Constitution.

It's apparent that you're the one trying to claim that an apple is an orange. :laugh:

When politics becomes an idol for ya, it can make you do some crazy things.

When people get stuck on themselves and think they know it all, they do some crazy things too!

They say, that the guy with the largest log in their eye, is always the best to find a man with a minute splinter in theirs! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[shodan]

Looking at the context is helpful in understanding. Paul wrote a letter, not chapters (they came along in the second millennium), And the flow of this begins with chapter 12.
http://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/romans-13-in-context-sword-pacifism/

 

[HankD]

Looking at the context is helpful in understanding. Paul wrote a letter, not chapters (they came along in the second millennium), And the flow of this begins with chapter 12.
http://textsincontext.wordpress.com/2012/05/31/romans-13-in-context-sword-pacifism/

Zaac is correct, Poncho is correct and so are you Shodan.

The rulers, authorities, etc have to be obeyed according to the scripture.

The founding rulers and authorities drew up documents e.g. Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights (First ten amendments) and the Constitution with the other Amendments. They were not monarchs but republicans (lower case "r").

These documents allow and encourage, freedom of speech (say what you will), freedom of the press (read what you will) freedom of association (hang with those you choose), redress of grievances (complain freely about whats bugging you), the Ballot Box (choose who will be in or out of office), all this within the scope of the consent of the governed (AKA to impeach or not to impeach) which is at least part of what Poncho is saying.

So when we do all these things above we are obeying the rulers and authorities and therefore the VERY scriptures zaac has mentioned.

When we speak out freely naming the evil which this administration and others have perpetrated (abortion, euthanasia, perversion, etc) we are in fact rebuking the unfruitful works of darkness as you have pointed out.

Personally, I try to be as respectful as possible towards the commander-in-chief when exercising my freedoms given to me by the rulers and authorities (actually by God) when speaking out and associating with like-minded folk concerning the oppressive evil being perpetrated by this administration as I have done concerning other administrations.

I do in fact pray for the current president, that he will do the right thing.

Starting with the FDR administration we have allowed our representative republic to become a socialist nation (IMO of course).

But that's the price of being (for a season) a representative government, we did it to ourselves (howbeit with no small part of stealth and deception on the part of those whom we consented to govern us)

I'm not giving up though and will use all these tools which our rulers have granted to defeat the greatest tyranny of all (slaughter of the unborn).


HankD

 

[FollowTheWay]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif] In America, the U.S. Constitution is the "supreme Law of the Land." Under our laws, every governing official publicly promises to submit to the Constitution of the United States. Do readers understand the significance of this distinction? I hope so.

[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]This means that in America the "higher powers" are not the men who occupy elected office, they are the tenets and principles set forth in the U.S. Constitution. Under our laws and form of government, it is the duty of every citizen, including our elected officials, to obey the U.S. Constitution. [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Therefore, this is how Romans Chapter 13 reads to Americans:[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"Let every soul be subject unto the [U.S. Constitution.] For there is no [Constitution] but of God: the [Constitution] that be [is] ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the [Constitution], resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For [the Constitution is] not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the [Constitution]? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For [the Constitution] is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for [the Constitution] beareth not the sword in vain: for [the Constitution] is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for [the Constitution is] God's minister, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor."[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
Dear Christian friend, the above is exactly the proper understanding of our responsibility to civil authority in these United States, as per the teaching of Romans Chapter 13.[/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]by Chuck Baldwin[/FONT][/FONT]

The Constitution is NOT the law of the land in the U.S. You're forgetting about the Bill of Rights and the other amendments to the constitution aren't you? In addition, the Congress is entrusted with making laws and the Supreme Court interprets the constitution. Do you actually think that in the 21st century we are subject to a document that was written almost 250 years ago? That's ridiculous. The world has changed and our laws must change in response to that.

 

[HankD]

The Constitution is NOT the law of the land in the U.S. You're forgetting about the Bill of Rights and the other amendments to the constitution aren't you? In addition, the Congress is entrusted with making laws and the Supreme Court interprets the constitution. Do you actually think that in the 21st century we are subject to a document that was written almost 250 years ago? That's ridiculous. The world has changed and our laws must change in response to that.

Yes sadly, our government has adopted the interpretation by the Supreme Court that shedding the blood of an innocent baby and thereby denying the child it's right to everything (life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness) is somehow a constitutional right in this 21st century age of enlightenment.

HankD

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

The Constitution is NOT the law of the land in the U.S. You're forgetting about the Bill of Rights and the other amendments to the constitution aren't you? In addition, the Congress is entrusted with making laws and the Supreme Court interprets the constitution. Do you actually think that in the 21st century we are subject to a document that was written almost 250 years ago? That's ridiculous. The world has changed and our laws must change in response to that.

That's undoubtedly the most moronic statement made on the board this week. Perhaps this month. Maybe even in the last year.

 

[poncho]

Again I'm saying rulers and authorities are people as made clear in Rom. 13.

You're claiming it's the Constitution.

It's apparent that you're the one trying to claim that an apple is an orange. :laugh:

When politics becomes an idol for ya, it can make you do some crazy things.

Caesar, a "ruler" was considered the source of all law in his day. All power was inherent in him. In other words power or authority was centralized in one person. Caesar. Caesar was "the supreme law of the land". That was then.

When the founders of the USA sat down to form a new government they put Caesar's power in the hands of the people. A government of by and for the people.

Instead of having all power inherent in a Caesar as in the Roman empire in the American republic all power is inherent in the people.

We the people are the "higher powers" in the American republic and we allow our elected representatives, public servants certain powers or authority to carry out not only the business of the people but the will of the people as well.

We the people wrote down in a document those powers we deemed it necessary that our elected representatives have to carry out their duties in their service to us. And only those powers. No more no less.

That document the U.S. Constitution is now "the supreme law of this land" not Bush nor Obama nor the congress nor the judges who sit on benches in high places. It is a legally binding contract between we the people and those who we send to serve us.

We do not have rulers over us. We the people stand in Caesar's place now and we the people delegate authority to whomever we will through the election process to serve us not rule us. And when those whom we elect to serve us usurp power from us (we the people) through any means other than that which they by law (legally binding contract) are allowed to pursue then they are acting illegally and should be held accountable by we the people.

We the people are the "higher powers" today Zaac. Obama and every single elected representative we send to our capitals are our servants not our rulers.

Get it yet? No? Then I suggest you do a study on the tenth amendment that makes it crystal clear that "we the people" are the "higher power" in the American republic.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Who authored the constitution? We the people. Who decided which powers should be delegated to our public servants? We the people. Who reserves the powers not delegated to our public servants? We the people.

How can Obama be our ruler if he is our servant?

 

[Revmitchell]

The Constitution is NOT the law of the land in the U.S. You're forgetting about the Bill of Rights and the other amendments to the constitution aren't you? In addition, the Congress is entrusted with making laws and the Supreme Court interprets the constitution. Do you actually think that in the 21st century we are subject to a document that was written almost 250 years ago? That's ridiculous. The world has changed and our laws must change in response to that.

And there you have it folks. The very thing that is wrong in the US. Man, I did not know liberals were willing to say this out loud.