Or your view of the MK and Eze. are wrong.
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A future Temple
- Thread starter ~JM~
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Or your view of the MK and Eze. are wrong.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
RichardJS: //You believe that the wall of partition which Christ destroyed
will be rebuilt, sacrifices reinstituted, a priesthood restarted etc?
In short a return to the types and shadows of Christ where
now we have the reality!//
These things will NOT be done by followers of Messiah Jesus
but by LOST YISRAEL.
Back in 1988 maybe 1989 I was talking to a rabbinical
Student in New York City. I was on a Bulletin Board
so this Rabbi-to-be could talk to me, a goy, with
the screens to protect him.
I (well some we) asked him; "What are the signs that
Messiah has come? (Many Jews today don't believe
that the Messiah has come yet - those who believe that
Jesus is the promised Messiah are called
'Messanic Jews'.)
There are the three signs that Messiah Has come:
1. He restored peace to Yisrael
2. He begins the Daily Sacrifice
3. He rebuilds the Temple in Yerusalem.
Those of you who are up on the contents of
New Testament prophecies
and the unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies
will recognize these things as that which the
Antichrist shall do after the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection of the Church Age
saved elect saints.
BTW, it will take 3½-years to build the
Temple in Yerusalem, the Daily Sacrifice
can be performed the very 24-hour day that
peace treaty is signed (excuse me, 7-year
covenent that gives the Jews the right to
rebuild the Temple north of the Dome of
the rock. The Holy Place and Holy of Holies
is the hard part to build, the Daily Sacrifice
can be made each day while the building
(Temple) is built. The only reason the
Daily Sacrifice isn't given today is that
a Billion Muslims don't want Yisrael
to do it and are willing to give their lives
to make sure it doesn't happen.
The Antichrist sure has his job cut out
Tomorrow in Yerusalem!
will be rebuilt, sacrifices reinstituted, a priesthood restarted etc?
In short a return to the types and shadows of Christ where
now we have the reality!//
These things will NOT be done by followers of Messiah Jesus
but by LOST YISRAEL.
Back in 1988 maybe 1989 I was talking to a rabbinical
Student in New York City. I was on a Bulletin Board
so this Rabbi-to-be could talk to me, a goy, with
the screens to protect him.
I (well some we) asked him; "What are the signs that
Messiah has come? (Many Jews today don't believe
that the Messiah has come yet - those who believe that
Jesus is the promised Messiah are called
'Messanic Jews'.)
There are the three signs that Messiah Has come:
1. He restored peace to Yisrael
2. He begins the Daily Sacrifice
3. He rebuilds the Temple in Yerusalem.
Those of you who are up on the contents of
New Testament prophecies
and the unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies
will recognize these things as that which the
Antichrist shall do after the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection of the Church Age
saved elect saints.
BTW, it will take 3½-years to build the
Temple in Yerusalem, the Daily Sacrifice
can be performed the very 24-hour day that
peace treaty is signed (excuse me, 7-year
covenent that gives the Jews the right to
rebuild the Temple north of the Dome of
the rock. The Holy Place and Holy of Holies
is the hard part to build, the Daily Sacrifice
can be made each day while the building
(Temple) is built. The only reason the
Daily Sacrifice isn't given today is that
a Billion Muslims don't want Yisrael
to do it and are willing to give their lives
to make sure it doesn't happen.
The Antichrist sure has his job cut out
Tomorrow in Yerusalem!
Quote:
How can the Temple be considered desecrated if it was rejected by God?
IMO this is the key question.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus said it I believe it.
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
How can the Temple be considered desecrated if it was rejected by God?
IMO this is the key question.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Jesus said it I believe it.
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Mt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Last edited by a moderator:
Rex.
I don't know much about the end times thing. I have my principles to work with and they dictate to me that if the temple is rebuilt then it will not be holy.
MT 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place `the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
If I take it that a temple built by the Israeli's is to be understood then where do we go from here?
What is the abomination that causes desolation? Daniel says, '...And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "' Dan 9:27.
I can't image anyone in the secular West bowing down to an idol.
And there are the sacrifices. Where do the Levites come from? The sacrifices cannot be efficient for anything being an affront to God. Jesus said the house of Israel was to be left desolate until He returns, how can anything coming from the Jews be holy?
john.
I don't know much about the end times thing. I have my principles to work with and they dictate to me that if the temple is rebuilt then it will not be holy.
MT 24:15 "So when you see standing in the holy place `the abomination that causes desolation,' spoken of through the prophet Daniel--let the reader understand-- 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
If I take it that a temple built by the Israeli's is to be understood then where do we go from here?
What is the abomination that causes desolation? Daniel says, '...And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "' Dan 9:27.
I can't image anyone in the secular West bowing down to an idol.
And there are the sacrifices. Where do the Levites come from? The sacrifices cannot be efficient for anything being an affront to God. Jesus said the house of Israel was to be left desolate until He returns, how can anything coming from the Jews be holy?
john.
johnp. said:
Charles H.Spurgeon OnMatthew 24:15-21 , the Abomination of Desolation
"This portion of our Saviour's words appears to relate solely to the destruction of Jerusalem. As soon as Christ's disciples saw "the abomination of desolation," that is, the Roman ensigns, with their idolatries, "stand in the holy place," they knew that the time for their escape had arrived; and they did flee to the mountains." (Matthew: The Gospel of the Kingdom. . p. 215.)
John Gill:
Mat 24:15 - When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation,.... From signs, Christ proceeds to the immediate cause of the destruction of Jerusalem; which was, "the abomination of desolation", or the desolating abomination; or that abominable thing, which threatened and brought desolation upon the city, temple, and nation: by which is meant, not any statue placed in the temple by the Romans, or their order; not the golden eagle which Herod set upon the temple gate, for that was before Christ said these words; nor the image of Tiberius Caesar, which Pilate is said to bring into the temple; for this, if true, must be about this time; whereas Christ cannot be thought to refer to anything so near at hand; much less the statue of Adrian, set in the most holy place, which was an hundred and thirty years and upwards, after the destruction of the city and temple; nor the statue of Titus, who destroyed both, which does not appear: ever to be set up, or attempted; nor of Caligula, which, though ordered, was prevented being placed there: but the Roman army is designed; see Luk_21:20 which was the כנף שקוצים משמם, "the wing", or "army of abominations making desolate", Dan_9:27. Armies are called wings, Isa_8:8 and the Roman armies were desolating ones to the Jews, and to whom they were an abomination; not only because they consisted of Heathen men, and uncircumcised persons, but chiefly because of the images of their gods, which were upon their ensigns: for images and idols were always an abomination to them; so the "filthiness" which Hezekiah ordered to be carried out of the holy place, 2Ch_29:5 is by the Targum called, ריחוקא, "an abomination"; and this, by the Jewish writers (w), is said to be an idol, which Ahaz had placed upon the altar; and such was the abomination of desolation, which Antiochus caused to be set upon the altar:
"Now the fifteenth day of the month Casleu, in the hundred forty and fifth year, they set up the abomination of desolation upon the altar, and builded idol altars throughout the cities of Juda on every side;'' (1 Maccabees 1:54)
And so the Talmudic writers, by the abomination that makes desolate, in Dan_12:11 to which Christ here refers, understand an image, which they say (x) one Apostomus, a Grecian general, who burnt their law, set up in the temple. Now our Lord observes, that when they should see the Roman armies encompassing Jerusalem, with their ensigns flying, and these abominations on them, they might conclude its desolation was near at hand; and he does not so much mean his apostles, who would be most of them dead, or in other countries, when this would come to pass; but any of his disciples and followers, or any persons whatever, by whom should be seen this desolating abomination,
spoken of by Daniel the prophet: not in Dan_11:31 which is spoken of the abomination in the times of Antiochus; but either in Dan_12:11 or rather in Dan_9:27 since this desolating abomination is that, which should follow the cutting off of the Messiah, and the ceasing of the daily sacrifice. It is to be observed, that Daniel is here called a prophet, contrary to what the Jewish writers say (y), who deny him to be one; though one of (z) no inconsiderable note among them affirms, that he attained to the end, הגבול הנבואיי, "of the prophetic border", or the ultimate degree of prophecy: when therefore this that Daniel, under a spirit of prophecy, spoke of should be seen,
standing in the holy place; near the walls, and round about the holy city Jerusalem, so called from the sanctuary and worship of God in it; and which, in process of time, stood in the midst of it, and in the holy temple, and destroyed both; then
whoso readeth, let him understand: that is, whoever then reads the prophecy of Daniel; will easily understand the meaning of it, and will see and know for certain, that now it is accomplished; and will consider how to escape the desolating judgment, unless he is given up to a judicial blindness and hardness of heart; which was the case of the greater part of the nation.
Now its "tomorrow"? What happened to "next year"?Ed Edwards said:
I am sorry you have gotten absorbed into this thinking. Most religious Jews do not believe the temple should be rebuilt EXCEPT by the Messiah. Zionists try to wring every possible ounce of emotional leverage out of this belief, but for their own purposes, not God's.
IF the temple were rebuilt, or if the old mosque that stands on the temple mount were to be razed, there will be World War III over it. And yet I do not doubt some non-Messianic folks are thinking of ways to destroy that mosque even now, preparatory to rebuilding the temple. Perhaps through a "terrorist bomb." Does this accord with scriptures?
Hello Grasshopper.
The emptiness had already happened. Jesus said, Matt 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
I can't see how an abomination could cause desolation as they had just killed God. The rejection had taken place so no place was holy anymore. The curtain had been torn in two. The holy of holies we live in.
Yes it does. ...16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
I was blind to that until a couple of days ago. Progress.
Is Gill trying to make 'a wing of the temple' mean an army?
john.
The emptiness had already happened. Jesus said, Matt 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, `Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.' "
I can't see how an abomination could cause desolation as they had just killed God. The rejection had taken place so no place was holy anymore. The curtain had been torn in two. The holy of holies we live in.
Yes it does. ...16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
I was blind to that until a couple of days ago.
Progress.I haven't much clue what Gill is on. Daniel says, '...And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him. "' Dan 9:27.
Is Gill trying to make 'a wing of the temple' mean an army?
john.
Lk 21.
20 ¶ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
Scofield Note
Verses 20,24 are not included in the report of the Olivet discourse as given by Matthew and Mark. Two sieges of Jerusalem are in view in that discourse. #Lu 21:20-24 refers to the siege by Titus, A.D. 70, when the city was taken, and verse 24 literally fulfilled. But that siege and its horrors but adumbrate the final siege at the end of this age, in which the "great tribulation" culminates. At that time the city will be taken, but delivered by the glorious appearing of the Lord #Re 19:11-21. The references in #Mt 24:15-28, Mr 13:14-26 are to the final tribulation siege; #Lu 21:20-24 to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus. In Luke the sign is the compassing of Jerusalem by armies #Lu 21:20 in #Mt 24:15 Mr 13:14 the sign is the abomination in the holy place. #2Th 2:4.
********
Romans did not sit in the temple as God, they destroyed it .
Antichrist will.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
20 ¶ And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled
Scofield Note
Verses 20,24 are not included in the report of the Olivet discourse as given by Matthew and Mark. Two sieges of Jerusalem are in view in that discourse. #Lu 21:20-24 refers to the siege by Titus, A.D. 70, when the city was taken, and verse 24 literally fulfilled. But that siege and its horrors but adumbrate the final siege at the end of this age, in which the "great tribulation" culminates. At that time the city will be taken, but delivered by the glorious appearing of the Lord #Re 19:11-21. The references in #Mt 24:15-28, Mr 13:14-26 are to the final tribulation siege; #Lu 21:20-24 to the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus. In Luke the sign is the compassing of Jerusalem by armies #Lu 21:20 in #Mt 24:15 Mr 13:14 the sign is the abomination in the holy place. #2Th 2:4.
********
Romans did not sit in the temple as God, they destroyed it .
Antichrist will.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Item corrected:
* that which is said at many Passover Meals
Daniel 9:26B-27 (KJV1611 Edition):
... the people of the Prince that shall come,
shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie,
and the ende thereof shall be with a flood,
and vnto the ende of the warre desolations are determined.
27 And hee shall confirme the couenant with many
for one weeke: and in the midst of the weeke
he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the ouerspreading of abominations hee
shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation,
& that determined, shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
The 'Sanctuary' is 'the Temple' on Mt. Moriah
(also known as: the Temple Mount), the city is
Jerusalem, wherein Mt. Moriah lies, the only
place where the Temple to G-d can be built.
The 7-year (one week) covenant is probably a
peace treaty allowing the Jews to build the
Temple - the temple being 'built' by the
Anti-messiah. Since about 1967 a majority of the
materials for the building of the Temple have been
in place, ready for the Messiah to come let the
Jews do their building.
Ed Edwards said:RichardJS: //You believe that the wall of partition which Christ destroyed
will be rebuilt, sacrifices reinstituted, a priesthood restarted etc?
In short a return to the types and shadows of Christ where
now we have the reality!//
These things will NOT be done by followers of Messiah Jesus
but by LOST YISRAEL.
Back in 1988 maybe 1989 I was talking to a rabbinical
Student in New York City. I was on a Bulletin Board
so this Rabbi-to-be could talk to me, a goy, with
the screens to protect him.
I (well some we) asked him; "What are the signs that
Messiah has come? (Many Jews today don't believe
that the Messiah has come yet - those who believe that
Jesus is the promised Messiah are called
'Messanic Jews'.)
There are the three signs that Messiah Has come:
1. He restored peace to Yisrael
2. He begins the Daily Sacrifice
3. He rebuilds the Temple in Yerusalem.
Those of you who are up on the contents of
New Testament prophecies
and the unfulfilled Old Testament prophecies
will recognize these things as that which the
Antichrist shall do after the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection of the Church Age
saved elect saints.
BTW, it will take 3½-years to build the
Temple in Yerusalem, the Daily Sacrifice
can be performed the very 24-hour day that
peace treaty is signed (excuse me, 7-year
covenent that gives the Jews the right to
rebuild the Temple north of the Dome of
the rock. The Holy Place and Holy of Holies
is the hard part to build, the Daily Sacrifice
can be made each day while the building
(Temple) is built. The only reason the
Daily Sacrifice isn't given today is that
a Billion Muslims don't want Yisrael
to do it and are willing to give their lives
to make sure it doesn't happen.
The Antichrist sure has his job cut out
Next Year* in Yerusalem!
* that which is said at many Passover Meals
Daniel 9:26B-27 (KJV1611 Edition):
... the people of the Prince that shall come,
shall destroy the citie, and the Sanctuarie,
and the ende thereof shall be with a flood,
and vnto the ende of the warre desolations are determined.
27 And hee shall confirme the couenant with many
for one weeke: and in the midst of the weeke
he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease,
and for the ouerspreading of abominations hee
shall make it desolate, euen vntill the consummation,
& that determined, shalbe powred vpon the desolate.
The 'Sanctuary' is 'the Temple' on Mt. Moriah
(also known as: the Temple Mount), the city is
Jerusalem, wherein Mt. Moriah lies, the only
place where the Temple to G-d can be built.
The 7-year (one week) covenant is probably a
peace treaty allowing the Jews to build the
Temple - the temple being 'built' by the
Anti-messiah. Since about 1967 a majority of the
materials for the building of the Temple have been
in place, ready for the Messiah to come let the
Jews do their building.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
johnp.Quote:
...the temple of God...
In which way will the temple in Jerusalem be the temple of God Rex?
john.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said
Jesus said it I believe it.
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
It appears the jews build the temple to worship God as in OT times and continue for 3 1/2 years then antichrist shows his true intentions and moves into the temple and sets himself up as god.
The jews realise they have been had and flee to the mountians------
Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
So the jews build it as the temple of God, apparently God allows it, to show the jews they would be fooled.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
And antichrist desecrates it.
johnp.Quote:
...the temple of God...
In which way will the temple in Jerusalem be the temple of God Rex?
john.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
As I said
Jesus said it I believe it.
Mt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
It appears the jews build the temple to worship God as in OT times and continue for 3 1/2 years then antichrist shows his true intentions and moves into the temple and sets himself up as god.
The jews realise they have been had and flee to the mountians------
Da 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
So the jews build it as the temple of God, apparently God allows it, to show the jews they would be fooled.
Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
And antichrist desecrates it.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Amen, Brother Rex77 -- Preach it! :godisgood:
You sure read your Bible a lot like I read mine.
You sure read your Bible a lot like I read mine.
Is that pink Ed? Preach what? I don't seem to be getting my meaning across maybe you could help? In which way will the temple in Jerusalem be the temple of God? In which way will the holy place be holy? How can desolation come on Israel when desolation is already on Israel? Matt 23:38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.
he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease What sacrifice would that be? Where do the Levites appear from? How can a sign, now discarded, be holy? A sacrifice of OT type will incur wrath, it will not be holy. And the holy of holies even more difficult to build for it is the heart of the elect.
The Holy Place and Holy of Holies is the hard part to build... Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." MK 10:27.
john.
he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease What sacrifice would that be? Where do the Levites appear from? How can a sign, now discarded, be holy? A sacrifice of OT type will incur wrath, it will not be holy. And the holy of holies even more difficult to build for it is the heart of the elect.
The Holy Place and Holy of Holies is the hard part to build... Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." MK 10:27.
john.
So the jews build it as the temple of God...
So you are changing your mind Rex? You have changed the meaning of scripture because the scripture calls it the temple of God. 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. #31.
john.
So you are changing your mind Rex? You have changed the meaning of scripture because the scripture calls it the temple of God. 2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. #31.
john.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Johnp: //In which way will the temple in Jerusalem be the temple of God?//
Ungodly people will think it is the temple of God.
Of course, the People of God know who/what
is the temple of God:
1 Co 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
Knowe yee not that yee are the Temple of God,
and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Ungodly people will think it is the temple of God.
Of course, the People of God know who/what
is the temple of God:
1 Co 3:16 (KJV1611 Edition):
Knowe yee not that yee are the Temple of God,
and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
Same as the old temple was made into a den of thieves.
Lu 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mr 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Lu 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Lu 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Mr 11:17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Lu 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Ed Edwards: //The Holy Place and Holy of Holies is the hard part to build...//
JohnP: // Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this
is impossible, but not with God; all things
are possible with God." MK 10:27.//
It is PEOPLE who will build the temple, not God.
JohnP: // Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this
is impossible, but not with God; all things
are possible with God." MK 10:27.//
It is PEOPLE who will build the temple, not God.