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A little about MY belief....
- Thread starter iakopa
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
While iakopa attitude many be a little strong, it reflect an attitude that however weak, can result in the same consequences.
"HUMBLE AS A CHILD" can be defeated by the weakest of "self determinations" attitudes.
Once we reach that point of thinking we "know it all", become "dogmatic", we cut ourselves off from any further teaching of the Spirit.
Just as Israel "thought" they knew the scriptures and couldn't find a referrence to a prophet from Galilee, and refused to "humble themselves" enough to hear/understand Jesus words, many Christians read/learn a little then "think" they "know it all".
As Jesus said, "If you have ears to hear" (Humble) you'll know the truth whenever you read/hear it, the "Spirit" will bear witness if it's man's or God's words, you don't need any man to teach you.
of course if you don't have ears, those words will just be the words of some man, as Jesus was to Israel.
Many believe that by "sacrificing" their time, going to church, tithing, working for the church/gospel, makes a "christians", it doesn't,
God said "I would have mercy and not sacrifices", meaning that the "Personal relationship" between him and the individual, spirit to spirit communications, is more important than all the other sacrifices we make, and it's the one thing most often denied to God.
As a tree is known by it's fruit so is a person by their words.
Mt 12:34 for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
"HUMBLE AS A CHILD" can be defeated by the weakest of "self determinations" attitudes.
Once we reach that point of thinking we "know it all", become "dogmatic", we cut ourselves off from any further teaching of the Spirit.
Just as Israel "thought" they knew the scriptures and couldn't find a referrence to a prophet from Galilee, and refused to "humble themselves" enough to hear/understand Jesus words, many Christians read/learn a little then "think" they "know it all".
As Jesus said, "If you have ears to hear" (Humble) you'll know the truth whenever you read/hear it, the "Spirit" will bear witness if it's man's or God's words, you don't need any man to teach you.
of course if you don't have ears, those words will just be the words of some man, as Jesus was to Israel.
Many believe that by "sacrificing" their time, going to church, tithing, working for the church/gospel, makes a "christians", it doesn't,
God said "I would have mercy and not sacrifices", meaning that the "Personal relationship" between him and the individual, spirit to spirit communications, is more important than all the other sacrifices we make, and it's the one thing most often denied to God.
As a tree is known by it's fruit so is a person by their words.
Mt 12:34 for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Do you mean that God isn't sovereign enough to get to to accept His calling yet? Isn't your will in play here?
As far as saying that Jesus Christ "failed" at His holy work and will, well that's just blasphemy.
As far as leading my wife and baby down that road, I would really REALLY be sure about what I believe, according to the Scriptures under Holy Spirit guidance, lest I find a mill stone tied around my neck.
{shudder}
[edited for technical difficulty]
Do you mean that God isn't sovereign enough to get to to accept His calling yet? Isn't your will in play here?
As far as saying that Jesus Christ "failed" at His holy work and will, well that's just blasphemy.
As far as leading my wife and baby down that road, I would really REALLY be sure about what I believe, according to the Scriptures under Holy Spirit guidance, lest I find a mill stone tied around my neck.
{shudder}
[edited for technical difficulty] </font>[/QUOTE]There's a difference between the effectual call unto salvation, and the call to the ministry, and to gospel obedience, else Paul wouldn't have warned against grieving the Holy Spirit.
I am sure that even among the non Primitive Baptists on this board, there are those who will testify that they were irresistibly drawn to Christ, and resisted the call to preach or serve for a while, if they will be honest about it
Well, now, then, if Jesus died for the whole world, then that death means the sins of the Amalekites have been atoned for, the sin of Cain have been atoned for, the sins of the Aztecs have been atoned for, the sins of the Mayas have been atoned for, the sins of all men have been atoned for, and all men are heaven-bound.
If not all men are heaven bound, then the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ meant nothing, and He spoke a lie when He told His Father, 'of all that thou hast given me, I have lost nothing, save the son of perdition', and when He said that 'all that the Father giveth me will come to me'.
So does mine, and so does every Primitive Baptists', and so does every Roman Catholics', and so does every Bible ever printed.
Now, when the Bible said, 'they have overturned the ]b]whole[/b] world, did that mean the whole world ? Or did that mean, in context, the whole world as they knew in their time, or the whole Roman world, as occupied by the Romans ?
Paul thanked God through Christ (Romans 1:8) that the faith of the Romans is spoken of throughout the whole world. Does this mean the whole wide world as in including the North Pole, the South Pole, and the two Hemispheres, and all lands and peoples in-between ? Or did Paul mean, the whole Roman world, through which news of what is going on travels ?
I believe the same arguments can be said if one insists that the word for world is always kosmos.
Yes, but it can be implied that His sovereignty and His will means nothing when it comes face to face with the will and consent of sinners.
Well, then, somebody must have been stupid when He had somebody write under His inspiration that certain people in a certain area in a certain time to 'make their calling and election sure'. And that somebody's stupidity must have been compounded when He had His words preserved, and allowed men to discover printing and have Bibles become the number one best sellers.
and the same can be said of those whose claim to assurance is some action they did on their part, like tearfully walking down some aisle in some church and having someone read the Roman way to him, and, wonders of wonders, he understood just how much this Christ suffered for him, and he so pitied this Christ and so abhorred himself he said okay to the pleading and wooing and begging of this God who creates things out of nothing.
4His_glory
New Member
So Christ accomplished nothing on the cross then? If what you are saying is true, then salvation is not completly accomplished by what Christ did on the cross, but is accomplished by my desicion meaning then that I had somthing to do with it.
Do you mean that God isn't sovereign enough to get to to accept His calling yet? Isn't your will in play here?
As far as saying that Jesus Christ "failed" at His holy work and will, well that's just blasphemy.
As far as leading my wife and baby down that road, I would really REALLY be sure about what I believe, according to the Scriptures under Holy Spirit guidance, lest I find a mill stone tied around my neck.
{shudder}
[edited for technical difficulty] </font>[/QUOTE]There's a difference between the effectual call unto salvation, and the call to the ministry, and to gospel obedience, else Paul wouldn't have warned against grieving the Holy Spirit.
I am sure that even among the non Primitive Baptists on this board, there are those who will testify that they were irresistibly drawn to Christ, and resisted the call to preach or serve for a while, if they will be honest about it </font>[/QUOTE]How is there a difference when the crux of the argument is God's sovereignty?
Are you saying that man has no will to resist God's sovereign will concerning His calling until he is saved? I would suggest that you read Rom. 8:14.
JackRus said:
From the lips of Nebuchadnezzar comes the glorious truth that God does what He will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one has the right to demand of God that He be merciful to all if He will be merciful to anyone, or that He call everyone to salvation if He calls one to salvation.
No one has the right to demand that the blood of Christ shed on the cross be effectual for all.
He decides whom He saves, and He decides whom He draws to Christ, and He does that for the benefit of the sinner, and for His glory, and when He draws the sinner, Christ guaranteed that 'all whom the Father gave me will come to me'.
However, having been drawn to Christ and regenerated in accordance with God's sovereign will for purposes of eternal salvation, the call to service is something that the sovereign God does not impose on anyone.
Christ Himself said that one who wishes to be His disciple must (1) take up his cross daily, (2) sit down, count the costs and then decide if he has what it takes, and (3) leave mother, father, sister and all he values for Christ.
In this area, the redeemed sinner has freedom, and often will falter, but if it is God who calls, in due time God's will is going to prevail.
The Bible is replete with examples of saints who faltered, turned away, ran from God, but ended up exactly where God wants them.
If you are heads and shoulders better than others in that you never doubted your course, then glory to you and may your tribe increase.
God's sovereignty is in that He is answerable to no one in decisions He makes. For example, He told Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and compassion on whom I will have compassion".
From the lips of Nebuchadnezzar comes the glorious truth that God does what He will in the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one has the right to demand of God that He be merciful to all if He will be merciful to anyone, or that He call everyone to salvation if He calls one to salvation.
No one has the right to demand that the blood of Christ shed on the cross be effectual for all.
He decides whom He saves, and He decides whom He draws to Christ, and He does that for the benefit of the sinner, and for His glory, and when He draws the sinner, Christ guaranteed that 'all whom the Father gave me will come to me'.
However, having been drawn to Christ and regenerated in accordance with God's sovereign will for purposes of eternal salvation, the call to service is something that the sovereign God does not impose on anyone.
Christ Himself said that one who wishes to be His disciple must (1) take up his cross daily, (2) sit down, count the costs and then decide if he has what it takes, and (3) leave mother, father, sister and all he values for Christ.
In this area, the redeemed sinner has freedom, and often will falter, but if it is God who calls, in due time God's will is going to prevail.
The Bible is replete with examples of saints who faltered, turned away, ran from God, but ended up exactly where God wants them.
If you are heads and shoulders better than others in that you never doubted your course, then glory to you and may your tribe increase.