A-millennialists believers ?

[Daniel David]

Oldreg, none of those texts have a thing to do with the body of Christ, of which Paul said was a mystery, previously unknown in time past.

The 'church' in the wilderness was a congregation, but not the body of Christ. Don't trust the Anglican version, trust what the word actually means.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Dispensationalist: one who believes what Romans
chapters 9, 10 and 11 says.

a-millinnialist: one who believes that there is
no physical Millinnial Reign of Christ (i.e. the
Millinnial Reign is of spiritual significance).

Most a-mills do not believe in a physical return
of Jesus, our Master and Christ; the return of
Christ is a mystery of deep spiritual significance
only.

Brother DeafPosttrib is an a-millinnialist who
believes in a physical return of Jesus.
As such, he is then a beacon of light in the dark
world of hopeless a-millinnialism.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Premil/disp stress there is distinction of Israel and Church in God's program. God have "special plan" for Israel for the future millennial kingdom. They teaching, Israel shall reign millennial kingdom - 'earthly'; Church shall millennial kingdom -'heavenly'. Thier teaching do not make sense to me. Calvary already reconciled both together into one at ONCE. Nothing there is a special plan "between" 'Israel' & 'Church' for the future coming millennial kingdom.

I URGE you to read good article talking about error of dispensationalism doctrine: http://users.frii.com/gosplow/disp2.html

Please opening your mind and see the scriptures with truth. New Testament made manifest or fulfilled Old Testament prophecies concerning of the Church.

Christ does not postponed 'kingdom' because of Jews rejected Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Christ removed hardened and unbelief nation(Israel) to other nation(Gentiles), same as unbelief Jews were cut off from the branch, but beliving Jews remain on the same tree, believing Gentiles are now grafted into the same tree join with believing Jews together into one - Romans chapter 11 because of the result of Calvary.

1 Peter 2:9 tells us, that we are chosen, peculiar(special), an holy nation. This does not limited for just Israel(physical nations -Jews). Also, it is for both Jews and Gentiles of all nations, who believe in Jesus Christ, they are an holy nation. 'An holy nation', is not speak of physical nation, but SPIRITUAL nation.

Later this week, I will discuss more on dispensationalism.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Ed,

You are a seriously mistake saying, that most amills do not believe Christ shall come in physical. Of course, LOT of amills believe in Christ's return shall be physical and literal.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Unless you quantify your statement, it has
no meaning. I believe that 60% (most)of
a-mills believe in a spiritual Second
Coming of Jesus (i.e. non-physical, non-literal).
Your statement "LOT" can mean anywhere from
10% to 49% amills believe in a literl/physical
Second Coming. So it might be that we are
even agreed (I just said the LOT of
literal/physical Second Returists is 40%).

DeafPosttrib: //Premil/disp stress there is distinction of Israel
and Church in God's program. God have "special plan" for Israel
for the future millennial kingdom. They teaching, Israel shall
reign millennial kingdom - 'earthly'; Church shall millennial
kingdom -'heavenly'. Thier teaching do not make sense to me.//

Dispensationism is what the Bible says in Romans chapters 9, 10,
and 11. What teachings of Romans 9,10, or 11 are you having
problems making sense of?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Daniel David:
Oldreg, none of those texts have a thing to do with the body of Christ, of which Paul said was a mystery, previously unknown in time past.

The 'church' in the wilderness was a congregation, but not the body of Christ. Don't trust the Anglican version, trust what the word actually means.

Since when doesn't the Church have anything to do with the Body of Jesus Christ? Strange to waht extent dispys will go!

Acts 20;28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Ephesians 5:25-27
25. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26. That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27. That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

For your information the Greek word "ekklesia" translated church in the New Testament means assembly or congregation.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
Dispensationalist: one who believes what Romans
chapters 9, 10 and 11 says.

a-millinnialist: one who believes that there is
no physical Millinnial Reign of Christ (i.e. the
Millinnial Reign is of spiritual significance).

Most a-mills do not believe in a physical return
of Jesus, our Master and Christ; the return of
Christ is a mystery of deep spiritual significance
only.

Brother DeafPosttrib is an a-millinnialist who
believes in a physical return of Jesus.
As such, he is then a beacon of light in the dark
world of hopeless a-millinnialism.

Well Romans 9, 10, and 11 repeats the prophecy that the Deliverer shall come out of Zion, and He did 2000 years ago.

As for your statement that most "a-mills do not believe in a physical return of Jesus, our Master and Christ" what is your basis for this statement? Until the rise of the Darby-Scofield error in the 19th and early 20th Century most Baptists were either amillennial or post millennial. The following show the traditional belief of Baptists:

The Abstract of Principles for the first Seminary of the Southern Baptist Convention founded by James Petigru Boyce, John A. Broadus, and Basil Manly, Jr states in part:

Article XIX. The Resurrection

The bodies of men after death return to dust, but their spirits return immediately to God - the righteous to rest with Him; the wicked, to be reserved under darkness to the judgment. At the last day the bodies of all the dead, both the just and the unjust, will be raised.

Article XX. The Judgment

God hath appointed a day, wherein He will judge the world by Jesus Christ, when every one shall receive according to his deeds: the wicked shall go into everlasting punishment; the righteous, into everlasting life.

You should be able to discuss eschatology without slandering those with whom you disagree. You mention that "Brother DeafPosttrib is an a-millinnialist who
believes in a physical return of Jesus. As such, he is then a beacon of light in the dark world of hopeless a-millinnialism." implying that I do not believe in a physical return of Jesus Christ. Have you no shame?

Amillennialism is not hopeless; it is dispensationalism which teaches that Jesus Christ failed to establish the Messianic Kingdom when he came the first time and established the Church instead. Then the Church is going to fail in its Great Commission, Jesus christ will remove them early and 144,000 Jews will preach another gospel, the gospel of some kingdom. I call that hopeless!

 

[OldRegular]

Many dispensationalists believe that the following statement is in force:

Genesis 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

A question for dispensationalists. Suppose a Jew curses a "born again" Christian and the Christian responds in kind. Whose side is God on?

 

[Daniel David]

That verse was a promise to Abraham and Abraham only. Israel does not equal Abraham like some would like to believe. Christ represents Abraham. If you curse Abraham's son, Christ, you will be cursed. If you bless him, you will be blessed.

 

[Grasshopper]

Most a-mills do not believe in a physical return
of Jesus, our Master and Christ; the return of
Christ is a mystery of deep spiritual significance
only.

Ed, you are as ignorant of A-Mill beliefs as you are full-preterist beliefs. A-Mill's believe in a future literal/physical coming of Christ. They acknowledge Christ also had "a" coming in AD70 but like Post-Mill's also believe in "the" coming in our future.

 

[Ed Edwards]

OldRegular: //You should be able to discuss eschatology without slandering those with whom you disagree. You mention that "Brother DeafPosttrib is an a-millinnialist who
believes in a physical return of Jesus. As such, he is then a beacon of light in the dark world of hopeless a-millinnialism." implying that I do not believe in a physical return of Jesus Christ. Have you no shame?//

Sorry, I didn't insult you. I didn't mention you.
I don't even care that much about you.
You have yet to explain enough of your eschatology for me
to even typicalify your beliefs.

Whomever was quoted (a comittee i guess):
"At the last day the bodies of all the dead,
both the just and the unjust, will be raised."
statement is dispensational, pre-mill, and pre-trib.
That "day" is one of God's type days that is 1,000
years long.

Grasshopper: //A-Mill's believe in a future literal/physical
coming of Christ. They acknowledge Christ also had
"a" coming in AD70 but like Post-Mill's also believe
in "the" coming in our future.//

I suspect that a minority (under 50%) of the a-mills
believe in a literal/physical coming of Christ.
I suspect that a minority (under 505) of the
a-mills who believe in a literal/physical coming
of Christ also believe in that coming being in our future.
But, of course, this is my opinion, but here my opinion is
as good as anybody elses (especially those who don't know
they are guessing).

 

[Grasshopper]

I suspect that a minority (under 50%) of the a-mills
believe in a literal/physical coming of Christ.
I suspect that a minority (under 505) of the
a-mills who believe in a literal/physical coming
of Christ also believe in that coming being in our future.
But, of course, this is my opinion, but here my opinion is
as good as anybody elses (especially those who don't know
they are guessing).

I would say 99% believe in a future/literal coming. I have never read nor seen one that didn't.

 

[Rich_UK]

I'm enjoying reading this thread....Thanks everyone for your posts.
DPT, thanks for taking the time to continue to explain your stance, I appreciate learning about other peoples views.

 

[Ed Edwards]

And we respect your learned guess
about as much as you respect mine.

I know a couple of a-mills, maybe three here,
two of them believe in a literal future
Second Coming of Jesus.

I know dozens of Mystic Christians that
make every Bible truth some mystical spiritual
meaning beyond my comprehension. None of
them believe in a literal future
Second Coming of Jesus but all are a-mill.
Do you need some links?

 

[OldRegular]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
OldRegular: //You should be able to discuss eschatology without slandering those with whom you disagree. You mention that "Brother DeafPosttrib is an a-millinnialist who
believes in a physical return of Jesus. As such, he is then a beacon of light in the dark world of hopeless a-millinnialism." implying that I do not believe in a physical return of Jesus Christ. Have you no shame?//

Sorry, I didn't insult you. I didn't mention you.
I don't even care that much about you.
You have yet to explain enough of your eschatology for me
to even typicalify your beliefs.

Dear Eddie

Your post glows with the love [the agape type] of Jesus Christ and my heart was really warmed by it.

As for my eschatology:

1. I believe in the visible return of Jesus Christ consistent with numerous Scripture.
2. At that time there will be a General Resurrection and Judgment consistent with John 5:28, 29, just like the Baptist Saints before the errors of Darby/Scofield.
3. There is no such thing as an earthly millennial kingdom with Jesus Christ, in the Power and Glory of the Godhead, sitting on some earthly throne, ruling over sinful mortals.
4. Jesus Christ is currently reigning from heaven with the souls of deceased Saints [those who have part in the first resurrection, the resurrection of Jesus Christ].

What more is necessary?

A couple of more thoughts on the errors of dispensationalism.

5. I believe that dispensationalism is a grevious and erroneous doctrine and has brought unnecessary divisions in the body of Jesus Christ.
6. The dispensational doctrine of a postponed Messianic kingdom and a parenthesis Church questions the Sovereignty of God and the veracity of Jesus Christ since these doctrines deny the statement of Jesus Christ as recorded John 17:4 "I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do."
7. God has only one people, the Church, which includes all those who have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Seven being the perfect number I will stop.

 

[Charles Meadows]

I am amillenial an DO hold to a REAL future coming of Christ.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Did you notice your profile says you
are a retired engineer?


IMHO "dispensational" means whatever it
is that Romans chapters 9, 10, and 11 are
trying to say. There is NO WAY you can
find something wrong with Romans 9,10, and 11.
So I win the debate.

OldRegular: "1. I believe in the visible return of Jesus Christ consistent with numerous Scripture."

Amen, Brother OldRegular. As do I.
We just have different understanding of
of "day" means (or "time" in your next
argument)

OldRegular: "2. At that time there will be a General Resurrection and Judgment consistent with John 5:28, 29, just like the Baptist Saints before the errors of Darby/Scofield."

I have yet to figure out why you are
arguing with Darby and with Schofield --
they aren't debating here. I am debating
with you here. Hello, just me and the
scripture. Why do people keep bringing
up Darby and Schofield? They aren't
debating here. Why do people keep ignoring
me, I am debating here. Maybe they don't
have any good arguments against me and
the scripture (but Darby and Schofield
are easy targets

)

BTW, it is insulating to call me "Eddie"
"Mr. Ed" or most anything other than
my user name. Thank you for your moderation
in this matter.

OldRegular: " 5. I believe that dispensationalism is a grevious and erroneous doctrine and has brought unnecessary divisions in the body of Jesus Christ. "

I think your misunderstanding of the
term "dispensationalism" is causing
termoil and confusion within you.
I define "dispensationalism" to mean
what it is that Romans Chapter 9, 10,
and 11 mean.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
I am amillenial an DO hold to a REAL future coming of Christ.

Spiritual is
just as real as physical. Which do you
beleive: a spiritual only return
or a physical return?

 

[Charles Meadows]

Ed,

A real PHYSICAL return.

Hope you're not dissapointed that I'm not a dispy!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Doesn't break my heart that you are not
a dispy. How about Romans 9-11 -
what doctrine does Romans 9-11 teach?