A moment of silence for the first amendment

[Gold Dragon]

I would put forth the notion that the rights of the veterans who had gotten together to protest that they had not received their promised bonus were violated. They were peacefully encamped when General Macarthur descended upon them with his troops tearing down their tents and forcefully removing them.

What a dark day in US history. The similarities to what happened at Lafayette park are eerie. I’m pretty sure that 89 would not lump this episode with the others.

The Last Time the U.S. Army Cleared Demonstrators From Pennsylvania Avenue

Hoover persuaded himself, with the aid of Douglas MacArthur, his Caesar-like Army chief of staff that the BEF had been infiltrated by Communists and was planning to stage a revolt. This was balderdash. In fact, Waters had made a point of ferreting out any Reds or would be Reds from his “troops.” No matter. As far as Hoover and MacArthur were concerned, the Marchers were a horde of criminals and Communist subversives.

Finally, on the afternoon of Thursday, July 28, 1932, under prodding from the White House, the commissioners of the District of Columbia ordered the D.C. police to clear the smaller, disheveled site near the White House, where several hundred of the Marchers were squatting. The police moved in. The veterans, who were armed with nothing more than bricks, resisted. The squatters were joined by several hundred of their comrades from Bonus City. Bricks were thrown.Shots rangs out. When the brick dust and gun smoke cleared one veteran was dead, another was mortally wounded and a D.C. policeman also lay near death.

That is when the D.C. commissioners asked the White House for federal troops.

Unlike his jingoist successor, Hoover was hardly a militarist; if anything, he was the opposite.
...
That was then. Now, pacifist no longer, Hoover, fed up with the rabble outside his house, was happy to oblige the District commissioners’ request for reinforcements. The president passed the request to his Secretary of War, Patrick Hurley, who passed the request to strutting four-star General Douglas MacArthur, who also was happy to oblige.

In Hoover’s statement justifying sending in federal troops, which was carried on the front page of the New York Times and other major American newspapers, he asserted: “An examination of a large number of names discloses the fact that a considerable part of those remaining are not veterans; many are Communists and persons with criminal records.”

“Damned lie,” Waters raged. “Every man is a veteran. We examined the papers of everyone.” No matter: The then largely conservative American press trumpeted Hoover’s hollow, martial words. Waters’ protest was ignored.

To say that MacArthur was eager to do battle with the Bonus Army is to understate the case. For weeks his men at nearby Fort Myers had undergone anti-riot training for just such a confrontation.
...
The New York Times reported what happened next: “Amidst scenes reminiscent of the mopping up of a town in the World War, Federal troops drove the army of bonus marchers from the shanty town near Pennsylvania Avenue in which the veterans had been entrenched for months. Ordered to the scene by President Hoover detachments of infantry, cavalry, machine gun and tank crews laid down an effective tear-gas barrage which disorganized the bonus-seekers, and then set fire to the shacks and tents left behind.”

After that, Hoover, whose aides were keeping him updated on the fracas, ordered MacArthur to stop.

But MacArthur had a fuzzy appreciation of the principle of civilian control of the military. Excited by the whiff of battle (even though it hadn’t been much of a battle) and convinced that the shoddy Bonus Marchers constituted a real and present threat to the government, the general disobeyed Hoover’s direct order and instead ordered his troops to cross the Anacostia River to Bonus City.

An even more detailed retelling by Smithsonian

Marching on History | History | Smithsonian Magazine

 

[Adonia]

What a dark day in US history. The similarities to what happened at Lafayette park are eerie. I’m pretty sure that 89 would not lump this episode with the others.

There are little similarities with Lafayette Park. No one was arrested, no one was killed, no one was severely assaulted, and no one was sent packing away from the city like what happened to the bonus army. They weren't even forced to stop protesting, they continued on with it a little bit further away from their original location. There were no mothers with their children at the Lafayette Park incident either. I don't believe the military was involved , it was just the Federal police forces that moved the protestors. Nope, no similarities.

Now, let's go to the 1992 Los Angeles riots. The California National Guard was federalized and U.S. Army active duty personnel were also involved. I wonder how the "89" felt about that use of Federal Forces. It's only because President Trump wanted to use the military is there any opposition. I guarantee that if President Obama had ever thought of sending or actually sent the U.S. military into the streets he would have been universally praised. Politics, pure politics is all this is.

 

[Use of Time]

The irrational obstinacy and irrelevance of your posts in the face of simple truth is truly amazing, but I suppose meshes well with the hypocritical condescension of GD's post (below) which you seem so desperate to legitimize.

BTW just who all are posting under "Use of Time"? I probably shouldn't ask, unless I'm prepared for the reply, "Our name is <self-edited>!"

[/QUOTE]

The usual ad homs. Still deflecting and dodging.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The usual ad homs. Still deflecting and dodging.

I suspect the reason you think my responses are deflecting and dodging is because you cannot grasp what I was responding to or how supercilious it was. But go ahead, try to make a rational statement describing it and challenging it, instead of spouting nebulous nonsense and vacuous accusations.

 

[Use of Time]

I suspect the reason you think my responses are deflecting and dodging is because you cannot grasp what I was responding to or how supercilious it was. But go ahead, try to make a rational statement describing it and challenging it, instead of spouting nebulous nonsense and vacuous accusations.

The reason I think your responses are deflecting and dodging is because you still haven’t even tried to dispute the number ours reports he posted. You won’t try, you will just hurl more personal attacks.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

The reason I think your responses are deflecting and dodging is because you still haven’t even tried to dispute the number ours reports he posted. You won’t try, you will just hurl more personal attacks.

Huh? Your post is garbled. But you have it all confused and backward. To be clear, the comment by GD was pure ad hominem with a supercilious air of martyr/messiah complex. Quite laughable, but also sad.

Call me the eternal optimist. I’ve been around here for a long time, not because I enjoy receiving ad hominems but hopeful that my brothers and sisters in Christ would free themselves from the manipulation of those who take advantage of their trust.

 

[Use of Time]

Huh? Your post is garbled. But you have it all confused and backward. To be clear, the comment by GD was pure ad hominem with a supercilious air of martyr/messiah complex. Quite laughable, but also sad.

He cited sources not ad hominems. You are still ignoring them.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

He cited sources not ad hominems. You are still ignoring them.

Not at all what I'm referring to or what I replied to. I added the quote above. I did not ignore anything. He made a very general statement.

 

[Use of Time]

Not at all what I'm referring to or what I replied to. I added the quote above. I did not ignore anything. He made a very general statement.

He gave specific contradictions from the police themselves and you have not addressed any of it once.

 

[Gold Dragon]

 

[Gold Dragon]

‘What I saw was just absolutely wrong’: National Guardsmen struggle with their role in controlling protests

”The crowd was loud but peaceful, and at no point did I feel in danger, and I was standing right there in the front of the line,” he said. “A lot of us are still struggling to process this, but in a lot of ways, I believe I saw civil rights being violated in order for a photo op.

“I’m here to support and defend the Constitution of the United States and what I just saw goes against my oath and to see everyone try to cover up what really happened,” the Guardsman continued. “What I saw was just absolutely wrong.”
...
One of the Guardsmen at the scene said the White House isn’t being truthful.

“I’ve been tear gassed before. I was there the night before when we got tear gassed, there was tear gas there” on Monday evening, he said. He added that he and some of his soldiers felt the effects of the tear gas from their colleagues because they didn’t have masks on.

...


In a statement, Capt. Chelsi Johnson, a spokesperson for the D.C. National Guard, responded to accounts of Guardsmen who had been accidentally affected by tear gas.

“They were instructed to put their gas masks on if/when they were ordered to or they noticed the police were putting theirs on. Every Guardsman was issued a gas mask,” she said. The U.S. Park Police has acknowledged firing pepper balls into the crowd, which is also a chemical irritant.

While the Park Police cleared out the protesters, some Guardsmen said they felt they were there to actually prevent the police from beating up protesters, instead of the other way around.

“I felt that we were more protecting the people from the police,” said D.C. Guardsman Spec. Isaiah Lynch, who’s unrelated to Si’Kenya Lynch.

...

The officer said he even told Gen. Mark Milley, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, just before the Park Police moved in that the protests had been peaceful that day, a sentiment that was shared by three other Guardsmen who were there.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Over 1000 DOJ alumni from Republican and Democrat administrations are signatories to this statement.

DOJ Alumni Letter to Inspector General Michael Horowitz

Dear Mr. Horowitz:

We write to you as alumni of the United States Department of Justice (“DOJ” or the “Department”). Collectively, we have served in both career and high-ranking politically-appointed positions in both Republican and Democratic administrations. Some of us had careers that spanned decades and multiple administrations.

We are deeply concerned about the Department’s actions, and those of Attorney General William Barr himself, in response to the nationwide lawful gatherings to protest the systemic racism that has plagued this country throughout its history, recently exemplified by the brutal killings of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor by sworn law enforcement officers acting under the color of law.
...
In particular, we are disturbed by Attorney General Barr’s possible role in ordering law enforcement personnel to suppress a peaceful domestic protest in Lafayette Square on June 1, 2020, for the purpose of enabling President Trump to walk across the street from the White House and stage a photo op at St. John’s Church, a politically motivated event in which Attorney General Barr participated.

While the full scope of the Attorney General’s role is not yet clear, he has admitted that he was present in front of the White House before law enforcement personnel took action to disperse the crowd. Department of Justice and White House personnel initially said that the Attorney General gave an order to law enforcement personnel to “get going” or “get it done.” A day later, the Attorney General told the Associated Press that he was “not involved in giving tactical commands.”

...

Based on what we now know, these actions violated both the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, which protects freedom of speech and the press, and the right to assemble; and the Fourth Amendment, which prohibits unreasonable seizures, to include objectively unreasonable uses of force by law enforcement officers. None of us would ever have considered directing or engaging in such actions to be consistent with our oaths to support and defend the Constitution.
...

For all of these reasons, we are asking you to immediately open and conduct an investigation of the full scope of the Attorney General’s and the DOJ’s role in these events. The rule of law, the maintenance of the Department’s integrity, and the very safety of our citizens demand nothing less. The Office of the Inspector General has the authority and the independence to conduct this investigation in a manner that will credibly probe the actions of the Attorney General and other DOJ employees

 

[Adonia]

Over 1000 DOJ alumni from Republican and Democrat administrations are signatories to this statement.

DOJ Alumni Letter to Inspector General Michael Horowitz

Oh, the members of the Deep State are troubled? Too bad. What was worse, this or the attempted coup of the duly elected President of the United States, Mr. Donald J. Trump?

 

[Use of Time]

Oh, the members of the Deep State are troubled? Too bad. What was worse, this or the attempted coup of the duly elected President of the United States, Mr. Donald J. Trump?

Everything that has a different opinion than Trump is part of the “deep state.” The favorite fairy tale Boogeyman for Trump sycophants.

 

[Adonia]

Everything that has a different opinion than Trump is part of the “deep state.” The favorite fairy tale Boogeyman for Trump sycophants.

I understand that you deny the attempt by the highest echelons of the FBI and their treason, and that is sad as more than enough evidence has come out. The unprecedented spying of an opposition Presidential candidate by the sitting Presidential administration (Obama's) was also very troubling.

It was a 674 day investigation by Special Counsel Mueller that turned up no "collusion" between Trump and the Russians.. And just last week the acting AG Rod Rosenstein said before an Senate committee that he would not have signed off on the FISA warrant or ordered said Mueller investigation had he known the extent of FBI malfeasance.

An attempted coup of the duly elected President by members of the "Deep State" that was not successful, thank God. Stay tuned, if there is any fair justice left in America indictments should be forthcoming against some of your "heroes" from the belly of the beast in short order by the office of the United States Attorney from CT John Durham.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

‘What I saw was just absolutely wrong’: National Guardsmen struggle with their role in controlling protests

Yep, absolutely wrong, and it started with the extremely violent protesters.

Osterholm said the Guardsmen were ill-prepared for the hate directed at them by the protesters, which was reminiscent of the anti-military sentiment during the Vietnam War. The shift from being viewed as heroes during the coronavirus pandemic to villains suppressing citizens’ right to protest happened overnight, she said.​

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Yep, absolutely wrong, and it started with the extremely violent protesters.

Osterholm said the Guardsmen were ill-prepared for the hate directed at them by the protesters, which was reminiscent of the anti-military sentiment during the Vietnam War. The shift from being viewed as heroes during the coronavirus pandemic to villains suppressing citizens’ right to protest happened overnight, she said.​

The question to focus on is why these “Guardsmen were ill-prepared for the hate directed at them by the protesters.” The riots, the lootings, the shootings, the burning, the violence should be evident to all. Who is hiding and denying the truth, so that those headed to the frontlines don’t realize how much anti-America hatred is seething within the “peaceful protesters”?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 6:30 PM Pacific.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Six Hour Warning
This thread will be closed sometime after 6:30 PM Pacific.

This thread is closed.