A Moment Of Truth

[HAMel]

The other day I'm out and minding my own business when the Lord speaks to me. Well, I certainly have no objection to that and I wish He would speak to me more often. Actually, he showed me a truth over an issue that had been on my mind and that small voice of insight was absolutely amazing.

Over the years I've heard many preachers speak regarding why Christ died on the cross for us..., which is of course, the result of our sin nature. While you hear it and agree with it I don't really think many of us even have the slightest realization of just how deep rooted this Sin Nature is and how
devastating and powerful it is. Well, when the Lord spoke to me I was provided just a little insight.

It's also came to me that when the Lord speaks and provides an insight such as He did to me, there are usually no earthly words to relate the experience. There's no way to translate the reality of what was provided.

Accordingly, here I was under the impression that I had a handle on it all (Christ, The Cross, Sin) but I really understand nothing about it. I guess that's why we're provided the ability to have faith because without said faith..., we would be trying to exist on our own devices, our own understanding(s), our own opinions and in truth, we know nothing. We have a grasp on so little all the while considering ourselves smarter than Lassie.

Years ago (70's) we lived in Danville, Va., where one of our neighbors had a brain tumor. The operation didn't go all that well and afterwards all this guy would do is sit outside his home and often break loose with some of the most awful language and cursing you've ever heard. Then, he was okay for an hour or two and not long after, he'd bust loose again. It embarrassed the mud out of his wife but there wasn't much anyone could do about it. Of course, all the neighbors understood.

This guy had been a dedicated Christian all his life but after his operation that sin nature kicked in and satan wasted no time with his dirty work. His wife couldn't take him to church any longer as right in the middle of the service he was subject to cut loose with his rants. It was really sad.

The bottom line is there is absolutely no way to totally escape that sin nature anymore than it's possible to grow another inch taller. That sin nature is so deeply rooted in each and every individual. We're born with it. We can suppress it somewhat but it's always there lurking and just waiting to come forth. Or can we "suppress" it under our own steam?

Living life in the flesh is but a curse and it's no wonder those who consider themselves holy and righteous are but filthy rags in the sight of the Lord. Death, therefore, is a blessing as it is the only way to break free of the curse..., if one has accepted Christ.

Even hard core, dedicated, Born Again Believers maintain that sin nature. You and I harbor it. There's no way to rid ourselves of it. That evil trait is there just waiting to be awaken. What a retched lot the human race is and no matter how "good" we consider ourselves, how "righteous" we consider ourselves, or how "holy" we consider ourselves to be..., we are but filth rags in the sight of our Lord.

No wonder He has such love and compassion on and for us. We're dumber than a herd of sheep because we really do think we understand! That "thinking" makes things worse! By and large, we don't understand anything.

I suspect that many are on their various missions for the Lord offering forth their theological views and opinions never considering what the Lord sees in them. Dirty rags?

I do praise the Lord for His speaking with me the other day and I'm so thankful He called me unto Himself many years ago. Needless to say, there's been times I've considered myself smarter than Lassie and perhaps Rin-Tin-Tin combined. In all truth, I'm dumber than a box of rocks when applied to our Lord and His Wisdom.

I am of the opinion that once the reality of this sin nature comes full circle then many, if not most of the other secrets begin to open for inquiring minds.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

We never have it all figured out, and I think that is due to the very sin nature so accurately revealed to you as to its depth and ingrained influence. If we ever begin to think we know it all, or know it better, we'd better have another think.

Great post, HAMel. :thumbsup:

 

[The Biblicist]

T While you hear it and agree with it I don't really think many of us even have the slightest realization of just how deep rooted this Sin Nature is and how
devastating and powerful it is.

Here is another amazing insight! In order to fellowship with the Lord, we must walk in the light. When you walk in the light you can see better.

Ps 36:9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.


People in the dark cannot see. Saved people are children of the light. However, God is light and the closer you get to him the better you can see yourself in contrast to Him. The closer you get to him the better you can see how much work there needs to be done in order to conform you to His image. In other words, the closer you walk to the light the greater you see your sinfulness, and thus the humbler you become about your own progress in sanctification.

The more spiritual a person becomes the more sensitive he is to his own great sinfulness:

Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.


The more spiritually mature a person is the more sensitive they are of their own sinfulness.

 

[just-want-peace]

HAMel, this piece is a God-send to me. Just last night I was asking Him to reveal to me just what my relation to Him is - not salvation, but as one-to-one. I cannot tell you what specifically you said that triggered it, but as soon as I read your post I felt I had my answer.
No way I can define this (my skills here are appalling) but I'm at ease now.
Again thanks for following His urging and posting same!!! :godisgood:

This one garners a "triple" LIKE!!:thumbsup:

 

[JamesL]

I can assure you that God didn't teach you anything about a sinful nature being a trait, an inclination, disposition or anything of the sort.

In scripture, "nature" doesn't mean disposition or some quality. Nature means SUBSTANCE. Man has two natures - body and spirit

An unbeliever is corrupt through and through, both body and spirit. He is a slave to sin because has s mind is constantly being influenced by a corrupt spirit and a corrupt body

When a man is born again, his inner man (spirit) is cleansed in the blood of Christ, by the Holy Spirit.

For the believer, your sinful "nature" is your physical body. Your sinless "nature" is your spirit.

Your soul (psyche, or mind) is ever caught between the influences of your sinless inner man and your corrupt body.

When we die, we shed this BODY of death and go straight to be with Christ. How is that? Because all that's left will be the sin less inner man.

It is impossible to understand sin and righteousness, apart from a proper understanding of our metaphysical makeup - both substance and construct.

 

[HAMel]

I can assure you that God didn't teach you anything about a sinful nature being a trait, an inclination, disposition or anything of the sort.

JamesL..., I'm sorry and I hate to break it to you like this..., in public and all, but I'm afraid you're in no position to tell me the Lord didn't speak a truth to me.

Besides, at the conclusion of my last physical my Doc told me I was aging right along just fine and there was no indication of any psychosomatic systems in either my soul or spirit mind that was misfiring.

I sleep good at night absent night mares; I do not suffer from heart burn; my wife and I get along very well; the bills are paid up and the car is paid for. Course, the kids and grand kids are a bit rattle brained but as far as the Lord speaking to me..., rest assured my friend..., He did.

...I did see a pigeon walking people toed the other day and thought that a bit odd but otherwise, I guess I'm of sound mind. What can I say?

 

[salzer mtn]

Years ago I personally knew of a deacon in our church that after his wife died he was dead set on finding another wife. He went so far as joining the CoC to marry. On his death bed he lost his mind and his children couldn't let the grand children around him because of his constant foul language rant's. Makes one wonder who he was really serving. As far as God speaking to us, I think he speaks to us through scripture. I would be concerned about anyone that say's God carried on a conversation with him.

 

[HAMel]

I would be concerned about anyone that say's God carried on a conversation with him.

...some of you folks are hard, hard, hard.

Saying the Lord "spoke" to me is just a figure of speech. No, He didn't "speak" to me as you and I would converse with each other. Had that happened I'd have probably ran off the road.

No, He impressed my mind. It "came" to me..., another figure of speech. Yes, the Lord does "speak" to us through His Word but He can speak to us in other ways..., otherwise, who are we to limit Him?

 

[Deacon]

WARNING WILL ROBINSON - TOPIC CHANGE

Years ago (70's) we lived in Danville, Va., where one of our neighbors had a brain tumor. The operation didn't go all that well and afterwards all this guy would do is sit outside his home and often break loose with some of the most awful language and cursing you've ever heard. Then, he was okay for an hour or two and not long after, he'd bust loose again. It embarrassed the mud out of his wife but there wasn't much anyone could do about it. Of course, all the neighbors understood.

This guy had been a dedicated Christian all his life but after his operation that sin nature kicked in and satan wasted no time with his dirty work. His wife couldn't take him to church any longer as right in the middle of the service he was subject to cut loose with his rants. It was really sad.

So Lordship people, was this man really saved?
Did he persevere to the end?
Did his previous works justify calling him "saved"?

Rob

 

[HAMel]

So Lordship people, was this man really saved?
Did he persevere to the end?
Did his previous works justify calling him "saved"?

Rob

Deacon..., I don't have a clue.

This was back in 1974-75 which was 40 years ago. We didn't attend the same church as they did. I do remember his wife befriending mine and I do remember witnessing several of his episodes but otherwise, I don't have a clue. Only the Lord knows.

 

[quantumfaith]

So Lordship people, was this man really saved?
Did he persevere to the end?
Did his previous works justify calling him "saved"?

Rob

Deacon..., I don't have a clue.

This was back in 1974-75 which was 40 years ago. We didn't attend the same church as they did. I do remember his wife befriending mine and I do remember witnessing several of his episodes but otherwise, I don't have a clue. Only the Lord knows.

Hamel, first of all I do appreciate your OP. Second, I am willing to go out on a limb here and state that the operation which resulted in neurological effects has absolutely no bearing on the mans relationship with God.

 

[righteousdude2]

Thanks for this....

Hamel, first of all I do appreciate your OP. Second, I am willing to go out on a limb here and state that the operation which resulted in neurological effects has absolutely no bearing on the mans relationship with God.

When I first read HAMel's post, I immediately thought of Tourette syndrome. And while this was a condition caused by surgical intervention, it has some of the characteristics of the disease.

I do not believe God holds this against us, in any way, because it is a physical, neurological condition. Maybe the doctors did tap into this man's deepest sin nature, who knows, but the fact is he was once a man of God, born-again into the Family of God, and if I read the word correctly, his name, just like yours and mine, were written into the Lamb's Book of Life the upon his being born-again, and this would fall under a once saved, always saved belief.

I do not believe that God has in his possession a big bottle of "White-out" nor do I believe that this man's name or any other name is recorded in pencil, eliminating the need for a God-like eraser.

I believe that this man was saved, remains saved, and will one day be received into heaven by a loving, all forgiving Fathers, because this man found the Christ of the cross well before he underwent an attempt to remove a deadly tumor!

I have to ask if a person who comes to Jesus, and suffered from Tourette Syndrome is going to be left out of the Lamb's Book of Life when he or she breaks out in a tic-related tyrant of foul language? Or if their tic-related behaviors are offensive to man or God?

I would like to think that the God I love and serve has a greater capacity for compassion than to allow our physical limitations and disabilities to keep us from the promise of salvation by His grace!

Both HAMel, a few others and QF have a good view of a loving God. For those who lack that same view, well, all I can say is, shame on you, He knows your name!


Should you need to know more about TS, here is a jumping off point, and please read the long list of symptoms, as it may give you a new and different perspective of how this disease engulfs some unsuspecting folks. BTW - I once knew a wonderful brother in Jesus, who had a tic that caused him to swear unexpectedly, but, we knew it wasn't him, it was the disease. If I were you, who like to judge others, especially those with mental illnesses, until you have truly stood in their shoes, keep your conclusions to yourself:
http://www.webmd.com/brain/tourettes-syndrome

 

[The Biblicist]

I can assure you that God didn't teach you anything about a sinful nature being a trait, an inclination, disposition or anything of the sort.

In scripture, "nature" doesn't mean disposition or some quality. Nature means SUBSTANCE. Man has two natures - body and spirit

An unbeliever is corrupt through and through, both body and spirit. He is a slave to sin because has s mind is constantly being influenced by a corrupt spirit and a corrupt body

When a man is born again, his inner man (spirit) is cleansed in the blood of Christ, by the Holy Spirit.

For the believer, your sinful "nature" is your physical body. Your sinless "nature" is your spirit.

Your soul (psyche, or mind) is ever caught between the influences of your sinless inner man and your corrupt body.

When we die, we shed this BODY of death and go straight to be with Christ. How is that? Because all that's left will be the sin less inner man.

It is impossible to understand sin and righteousness, apart from a proper understanding of our metaphysical makeup - both substance and construct.

Your are technically correct. However, I think he meant the same thing but simply used the wrong terms.

I don't think he claimed he heard any audible voice but simply had mental clarification about it and believed it was the impression of the Spirit upon his mind that gave him that clarification.

it is also true that alzheimers, or any other brain damage can result in wonderful Christians resorting back to ungodly manners. The law of sin operates as a principle in our flesh to influence our thinking, and that is why the Christian walk is a mental determination to rest upon the Lord, to resist, to reckon, to yeild, etc. When a person has a physical problem that affects their mental ability they can resort back under the dominion of the law of sin, as they no longer have mental ability to resist, to yeild, to reckon.

 

[righteousdude2]

You have never heard from God?

Your are technically correct. However, I think he meant the same thing but simply used the wrong terms.

I don't think he claimed he heard any audible voice but simply had mental clarification about it and believed it was the impression of the Spirit upon his mind that gave him that clarification.

it is also true that alzheimers, or any other brain damage can result in wonderful Christians resorting back to ungodly manners. The law of sin operates as a principle in our flesh to influence our thinking, and that is why the Christian walk is a mental determination to rest upon the Lord, to resist, to reckon, to yeild, etc. When a person has a physical problem that affects their mental ability they can resort back under the dominion of the law of sin, as they no longer have mental ability to resist, to yeild, to reckon.

If you don't hear from God, brother, who, what and where do you get the ideas to inspire others as well as teach them?

I have heard from God, both audibly and in mental clarification, and I'm not ashamed to say this.

There was a time that I was on the coaching staff of a high school football team and while working in the team locker roo, it was being renoonvated; I was getting the medical field box restocked and ready for the game that evening, not aware that the construction folks had removed the floor bolts for the five rows of lockers.

Out of nowhere came a voice, telling me to quickly move into the cubby area where the water fountain was soon to be put in place, and as I listened without questioning, I just squeezed in there in time to miss five rows of thousands of pounds of metal lockers come falling o me; I would have been killed if not seriously injured.

The football coach heard the crash and came out of the office to find me still squeezed in that small cubby hole, and he asked what happened and when I told him about the voice, he, being a staunch Southern Baptist told me that both of us had just witnessed a miracle of God's intervention!

There have been several times that God has audibly spoken to me, and who am I to question His ability to speak? There are numerous texts in both the OT and NT that speak to the fact that God or Jesus spoke audibly to them. One is Saul, who later became Paul! It took an audible voice and an act of immeasurable circumstances to impress upon Paul that God w calling for Him to change teams and start preaching for the Kingdom and His Son!

We serve a supernatural God, and that supernatural part of who God is, is exactly what causes me to believe in the things I see and hear and have no explanation for!

If you have not yet heard from God in an audible way, don't feel bad, you proabaly still have time left, and he can still surpise you. But, will you believe what you hear, or rationalize it away? Shalom!!! :thumbs:

 

[The Biblicist]

If you don't hear from God, brother, who, what and where do you get the ideas to inspire others as well as teach them?

I have heard from God, both audibly and in mental clarification, and I'm not ashamed to say this.

There was a time that I was on the coaching staff of a high school football team and while working in the team locker roo, it was being renoonvated; I was getting the medical field box restocked and ready for the game that evening, not aware that the construction folks had removed the floor bolts for the five rows of lockers.

Out of nowhere came a voice, telling me to quickly move into the cubby area where the water fountain was soon to be put in place, and as I listened without questioning, I just squeezed in there in time to miss five rows of thousands of pounds of metal lockers come falling o me; I would have been killed if not seriously injured.

The football coach heard the crash and came out of the office to find me still squeezed in that small cubby hole, and he asked what happened and when I told him about the voice, he, being a staunch Southern Baptist told me that both of us had just witnessed a miracle of God's intervention!

There have been several times that God has audibly spoken to me, and who am I to question His ability to speak? There are numerous texts in both the OT and NT that speak to the fact that God or Jesus spoke audibly to them. One is Saul, who later became Paul! It took an audible voice and an act of immeasurable circumstances to impress upon Paul that God w calling for Him to change teams and start preaching for the Kingdom and His Son!

We serve a supernatural God, and that supernatural part of who God is, is exactly what causes me to believe in the things I see and hear and have no explanation for!

If you have not yet heard from God in an audible way, don't feel bad, you proabaly still have time left, and he can still surpise you. But, will you believe what you hear, or rationalize it away? Shalom!!! :thumbs:

I am glad you were protected. However, what I had in view is audible revelation in addition to God's written Word. God does not speak directly to His people audibly as he did the prophets in providing revelation, but has spoken through His Son (Heb. 1:1) in these last days. Christ Speaks through His authorized representatives - the apostles -which were commissioned to complete the Biblical canon or the "testimony of Jesus Christ" (Isa. 8:16-18; Rev. 1:3; 22:18-19). He speaks through their words (Jn. 17:21) to His people.

The offices of apostle and prophet has ceased with the finishing of the Biblical canon. There are just false prophets and apostles in the last days (Mt. 24:24-25; 2 Thes. 2:9).

For example, if you claimed that God speaks new revelation through you, then if you spoke it or wrote it down it would be as inspired as the written Word of God. That is simply not happening after the completion of the Biblical canon.

However, for the sake of argument, let's say some claim God is revealing to them new doctrine or inspired interpretation of the scriptures, then at minimum we are commanded to apply the tests of a prophet to them (Deut. 13:1-5; 18:20-22; Isa. 8:19-20; 1 Jn. 4:1,6; etc.). I know of no self-proclaimed prophet/apostle since the first century who has ever past these tests. I know of none today who have passed these these tests. However, there are boatloads of self-proclaimed apostles and prophets today.

 

[HAMel]

HAMel, this piece is a God-send to me. Just last night I was asking Him to reveal to me just what my relation to Him is - not salvation, but as one-to-one. I cannot tell you what specifically you said that triggered it, but as soon as I read your post I felt I had my answer.
No way I can define this (my skills here are appalling) but I'm at ease now.
Again thanks for following His urging and posting same!!!

This one garners a "triple" LIKE!!

just-want-peace nailed it. God "revealed" and there's no way he can "define" it. God revealed. Ponder this miracle for a bit.

We've all experienced in our life while struggling with a situation or a problem for hours or days and finally, the solution is "revealed". It's quite enlightening when it finally comes together.

Good for you just..., Praise the Lord.

 

[righteousdude2]

Okay

I am glad you were protected. However, what I had in view is audible revelation in addition to God's written Word. God does not speak directly to His people audibly as he did the prophets in providing revelation, but has spoken through His Son (Heb. 1:1) in these last days. Christ Speaks through His authorized representatives - the apostles -which were commissioned to complete the Biblical canon or the "testimony of Jesus Christ" (Isa. 8:16-18; Rev. 1:3; 22:18-19). He speaks through their words (Jn. 17:21) to His people.

The offices of apostle and prophet has ceased with the finishing of the Biblical canon. There are just false prophets and apostles in the last days (Mt. 24:24-25; 2 Thes. 2:9).

For example, if you claimed that God speaks new revelation through you, then if you spoke it or wrote it down it would be as inspired as the written Word of God. That is simply not happening after the completion of the Biblical canon.

However, for the sake of argument, let's say some claim God is revealing to them new doctrine or inspired interpretation of the scriptures, then at minimum we are commanded to apply the tests of a prophet to them (Deut. 13:1-5; 18:20-22; Isa. 8:19-20; 1 Jn. 4:1,6; etc.). I know of no self-proclaimed prophet/apostle since the first century who has ever past these tests. I know of none today who have passed these these tests. However, there are boatloads of self-proclaimed apostles and prophets today.

So you say the office of apostle and prophet ceased being.....if that is what you believe, who am I to argue. You have canon to support your claim, I have actual experience. Personally, I prefer to believe God still speaks. Shalom!

 

[The Biblicist]

So you say the office of apostle and prophet ceased being.....if that is what you believe, who am I to argue. You have canon to support your claim, I have actual experience. Personally, I prefer to believe God still speaks. Shalom!

Isaiah 8:19 is experience
Isaiah 8:20 is scripture and scripture trumps supernatural experiences
Isaiah 8:16-18 is prediction of finished canon by Christ's apostles
Rev. 1:3; 22:17-19 is "seal" of Isaiah 8:16-18 prediction.

I will take God's Word over all the personal stories in the world. Find one living professed apostle or prophet that has passed the Biblical tests of a prophet/apostle??? I will await!

 

[Rippon]

You have canon to support your claim, I have actual experience.

Most Christians on the BB would denounce your view as anti-Scriptural.

How does 2 Timothy 3:16 read in your favorite translation: All personal experience is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness?

It sounds like the biblical truths of the Reformation haven't hit your soul yet. Martin Luther stood on the Word of God. The Roman Catholics stood on their tradition and elements of the Bible. You are following their lead. That is a sad palce to be rd2.

 

[righteousdude2]

Most Christians on the BB would denounce your view as anti-Scriptural.

How does 2 Timothy 3:16 read in your favorite translation: All personal experience is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness?

It sounds like the biblical truths of the Reformation haven't hit your soul yet. Martin Luther stood on the Word of God. The Roman Catholics stood on their tradition and elements of the Bible. You are following their lead. That is a sad palce to be rd2.

It is all fine for me, as I know who and what I believe and it is all based upon scripture, not just a few sentences taken out of context! I certainly don't waht you pity rippon, and I for sure rebuke your pathetic attempt to sit over me as some kind of judge!

I have done well following God, and assume you have done well following whatever you portent to follow. Your opinions mean nothing to me, because I see you as a know it all brother, forcing his will upon others.''I'd much rather be under the will of God and His word, and free from fanantics like yourself!

No do me a favor, and go find another project to cast your judgment upon! You are as boring and getting old quick.

As for who's lead I follow, it is Jesus. Luther and the catholics are not my rock, Jesus is. As for standing on something, you have always appeared to be standing on the shoulders of smoething much worse, and more evil than what you accuse me of standing on! One should be mindful of where their feet are anchored before they attack another!

I have seen your type in every church I've ever visited, and your type fail to influence me in any way! And dont you worry about the Biblical truths of the reformation hitting me yet. I am exactly where my God wants me to be. The thing you should be concerned with is ARE YOU WHER YOU SHOULD BE? :smilewinkgrin: