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A Must Read for CCM Fans!

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Aaron, Feb 17, 2002.

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  1. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    bump
     
    #21 Aaron, Jan 17, 2003
  2. Corry Cox

    Corry Cox New Member

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    Is there not a picture of Heaven shown in John's Revelation? We see how the host of heaven worship right?

    Rev 5:8-10 (NIV)
    8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9 And they sang a new song:

    "You are worthy to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
    because you were slain,
    and with your blood you purchased men for God
    from every tribe and language and people and nation.

    REV 5:10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
    and they will reign on the earth."

    Seems to me the New Testament is not silent on the use of instruments in worship.

    Just so it is not "mixed up" in the NIV:

    (KJV)
    REV 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
     
    #22 Corry Cox, Jan 17, 2003
  3. JamesJ

    JamesJ New Member

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    I wonder where the new testament admonition for men to where pants is.

    [ January 17, 2003, 11:12 AM: Message edited by: JamesJ ]
     
    #23 JamesJ, Jan 17, 2003
  4. reubdog

    reubdog New Member

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    where's the NT admonition to use the internet? Hmmm. "whether ye eat or drink or whatsoever ye do, do it all to the glory of God" that's in the setting of a local church. to glorify God means to give a high opinion of God. This is the purpose for Life and Creation (if you're a dispensationalist) Therefore, I think we have liberty to Glorify God through the use of instruments with music. Otherwise, when speaking of eating or drinking we're never told to use silverware. Does your church eat finger only foods at fellowships? we are told to eat to God's glory, but paul never mentioned with what instuments, or if any, we are to glorify GOd with.
    : )
    Psalm 150
    reub
     
    #24 reubdog, Jan 17, 2003
  5. JonathanDT

    JonathanDT New Member

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    why not?</font>[/QUOTE]Well, since Aaron bumped this, I would like to reiterate this still unsanswered question, and ask why not? Are you trying to say that we can't worship in any of the ways they did in the OT? We have been given freedom through Christ's sacrifice and we are not required to follow the OT. Yet, we CAN if we so wish. For instance, even though he didn't HAVE to, Timothy was still circumcised.
     
    #25 JonathanDT, Jan 17, 2003
  6. Travelsong

    Travelsong Guest

    Isn't your proclamation against the use of instruments in worship also on the basis of Scriptural silence? Where is there anything written in the New Testament to indicate that instruments are innapropriate for worship?

    I really wish you would answer the following question:

    How is the human voice as a musical instrument better (in the sense of more appropriate) than any other type of musical instrument for worship?
     
    #26 Travelsong, Jan 17, 2003
  7. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    Magnets vs. demons and CCM vs. Not.

    :confused:

    Have you ever tried chunking them at someone at church who is a demon? I'd say it works, especially if it hits them upside the head or in the Goliath zone. Like playing whack a mole. But personally, I like using prayer.
     
    #27 SaggyWoman, Jan 17, 2003
  8. Dan Bauer

    Dan Bauer Guest

    At the risk of extending this thread, I would like to know what Aaron's reasons are for his belief of NT nullification of OT worship styles. Isn't He the same God? Was God not happy with the worship acts in the OT? Just curious.

    Dan in Az
     
    #28 Dan Bauer, Jan 19, 2003
  9. redwhitenblue

    redwhitenblue New Member

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    ugh....magnets and demons...music...tell ya what let's use the magnets to ward off the "demons" in the music and we'll all be happy haha sorry little bit of humor usually helps me to remain calm [​IMG]

    karen
     
    #29 redwhitenblue, Jan 20, 2003
  10. Ransom

    Ransom Active Member

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    Well, I tried to "exorcise" a hymn tape with a powerful magnetic field. Now it's completely blank.

    Whaddya know, it works. :cool:
     
    #30 Ransom, Jan 20, 2003
  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    You will never see anything in any of my posts against the use of musical instruments in Christian Worship.

    My point in this is to help you see that the mere presence of an instrument is the exercise of a "liberty," (though it is not modes of worship that Paul was speaking of when he spoke of liberty) and an imposition upon the forbearance of God, and that, in opposition to the CCM position that we are commanded to worship Christ with such is an un-Scriptural and presumptuous position at best, superstitious at worst.
     
    #31 Aaron, Jan 20, 2003
  12. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Now, to the question of why OT forms of worship cannot transfer to the NT.

    Jesus said, "But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:23-24.

    The Temple was central to the worship of Jehovah. The carnal rituals, the burning of incense, the lighting of lamps, the blowing of horns, etc. have been supplanted by the true spiritual worship of the NT.

    Instruments found their. way into Christian worship through the Roman church, and the Eastern Orthodox church shuns them to this day.
     
    #32 Aaron, Jan 20, 2003
  13. Dan Bauer

    Dan Bauer Guest

    Interesting Aaron but Jesus was responding to the question from the Samaritan woman about the proper "place" to worship. "..my ancestors worshipped on this mountain but the jews say to worship in Jerusalem. Who is right?" Jesus was saying that the attitude of worship takes precedent over the location of worship. I believe he was not telling us what specific acts were appropriate rather the motivation for the worship is the important thing. Jesus is telling her that God is not in a box. Worship is not something to be done only in one place and forgotten about everywhere else.
     
    #33 Dan Bauer, Jan 21, 2003
  14. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Jesus statement is much more significant once it is understood that the worship of the Levitical priesthood was according to a carnal commandment (Heb 7:16). In other words, the temple worship was never spiritual in the sense that Christian worship is spiritual.

    But to say that Christ was merely saying attitude was more important than location is...well...wrong. He was speaking of the forms of worship, and at that time, location was critical. Why in the reforms of Hezekiah and Josiah were the "high places" destroyed and all worship relegated to the Temple, and why mention that though in all other respects other reformers were good to destroy all the idols in the land, the high places were left?

    The Temple was the spot for worship in Judaism, and it was not lawful to offer sacrifices anywhere else.

    And it is more than "interesting." In the first centuries of Christianity the church shunned musical instruments for this very reason, until Rome brought them in with other shadows of the Law.
     
    #34 Aaron, Jan 22, 2003
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