A Nuanced Examination of Exodus 20:1-17

[Christina1]

The first four pertain to God.
[a] No Gods before Me.
(b) Make no idols.
[c] Do not take the Name of God in vain.
[d] Remember the Sabbath daily as holy.

The second six pertain to humanity.
[a] Honor father and mother.
No murder.
[c] No adultery.
[d] No stealing.
[e] No lying.
[f] No coveting.

I remember you split verse 3 from 4-6.
Verse 3 is about whom to worship and verses 4-6 are about what not to worship.

 

[tyndale1946]

I remember you split verse 3 from 4-6.
Verse 3 is about whom to worship and verses 4-6 are about what not to worship.

I look at it this way... Sins against God the divinity... the first four... Sins against Man... The humanity... the remaining six... Brother Glen

 

[kyredneck]

It's just a fascinating topic.

If that thrills you then splain how there's fourteen (14) generations between all these?: Matthew 1:2-17, or, Christ in the grave for three days and three nights Matthew 12:40, lol.

Easy peasy, if scripture says it's so, then, it's so.

 

[Christina1]

I look at it this way... Sins against God the divinity... the first four... Sins against Man... The humanity... the remaining six... Brother Glen

So I'm guessing that would make you a verse 3 man, right?

 

[Christina1]

If that thrills you then splain how there's fourteen (14) generations between all these?: Matthew 1:2-17, or, Christ in the grave for three days and three nights Matthew 12:40, lol.

Easy peasy, if scripture says it's so, then, it's so.

That sounds very interesting but not really the topic we're dealing with here.

I want to know what you think about this. You've already stated that there are ten commandments. So, are you of the verse 3, verse 17, or verse 2 persuasion? Or do you do something completely different to get to ten?

If I was completely new to Christianity and I asked you to list the ten commandments, what would you say to me?

 

[kyredneck]

If I was completely new to Christianity and I asked you to list the ten commandments, what would you say to me?

Well, I could C&P this (which by the letter I agree with):

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

OR, to a 'new Christian', I'd more likely direct them here (being it's the 'new' covenant and all):

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7
8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

Forget 'the letter' of it Christina. The fulfillment of the law is 'in the spirit'.

 

[Christina1]

Well, I could C&P this (which by the letter I agree with):

1. You shall have no other gods before Me.
2. You shall make no idols.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain.
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy.
5. Honor your father and your mother.
6. You shall not murder.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
8. You shall not steal.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
10. You shall not covet.

OR, to a 'new Christian', I'd more likely direct them here (being it's the 'new' covenant and all):

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7
8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

Forget 'the letter' of it Christina. The fulfillment of the law is 'in the spirit'.

Beautiful! So I think you and Scarlett and Brother Glenn are all in the same Verse 3 school of thought.

 

[Christina1]

Here's a follow up question for you and Brother Glenn and anyone else who subscribes to the Verse 3 school of thought:

The following analysis is the clearest argument for the Verse 3 school of thought that I have seen. It was written by Scarlett in the previous thread:

There Are Only Nine Commandments (click the link)

Does this explanation make sense to you or is there something here that you disagree with? Is this something that you could fully get behind?

 

[kyredneck]

Here's a follow up question for you and Brother Glenn and anyone else who subscribes to the Verse 3 school of thought:

The following analysis is the clearest argument for the Verse 3 school of thought that I have seen. It was written by Scarlett in the previous thread:

There Are Only Nine Commandments (click the link)

Does this explanation make sense to you or is there something here that you disagree with? Is this something that you could fully get behind?

Sounds good to me.

What sounds better to me is the 'simplicity' of it:

12 All things therefore whatsoever ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the law and the prophets. Mt 7
8 Owe no man anything, save to love one another: for he that loveth his neighbor hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
10Love worketh no ill to his neighbor: love therefore is the fulfilment of the law. Ro 13

 

[kyredneck]

Think about the simplicity of this Christina:

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not covet, and if there be any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. Ro 13

 

[kyredneck]

3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve in his craftiness, your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity and the purity that is toward Christ. 2 Cor 11

 

[Christina1]

If we assume that there are ten commandments as the Bible says there are, then I'm definitely a verse 2 girl. When I read verses 3-6, I still see one unified idea - one commandment. When I read verse 17, I see one unified idea - one commandment. So that leaves me with 9. The only logical path for me to get to ten is adopting verse 2 as the first commandment. It's sneaky because it's not stated in the form of a command.

I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

It makes sense from a metaphysical perspective, too. If God gave us freewill then it's only logical that God would be concerned with us maintaining our freedom. God desires it for us so much that it's the very first command at the top of the list.

Scriptural support:
Whoever is without love does not know God, for God is love.
1 John 4:8

I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 14:6

So Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will realize that I AM, and that I do nothing on my own, but I say only what the Father taught me.
John 8:28

Jesus then said to those Jews who believed in him, "If you remain in my word, you will truly be my disciples, and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
John 8:31-32

Understanding that freedom and love are metaphysically equivalent is key. Freedom and love are the very nature of God. And being made in his image leads us to conclude that love and freedom are part of our nature, too.

And so, stating it in the form of a command was not necessary because our freedom is implied, granted, and given. So much so that even in the face of sin, sickness, and all kinds of suffering and even death itself, we will triumph in victory with the support of our loving God.

 

[MrW]

Maybe God can create a 30-billion-light-year-across universe, angels, and people, and can number the stars, knows all their names, knows the number of hairs in everyone’s head—but can’t count to ten.

NOT!

 

[Christina1]

Maybe God can create a 30-billion-light-year-across universe, angels, and people, and can number the stars, knows all their names, knows the number of hairs in everyone’s head—but can’t count to ten.

NOT!

Great. You've made your point. You believe there are ten commandments. Now how about the second part of the question?
What are the ten commandments? If I was completely new to the Christian religion and I asked you what the ten commandments were, what would you say to me?

 

[tyndale1946]

Great. You've made your point. You believe there are ten commandments. Now how about the second part of the question?
What are the ten commandments? If I was completely new to the Christian religion and I asked you what the ten commandments were, what would you say to me?

Well if I said that to you as a new Christian, would you believe me?... I would just hand you a Bible, show you where it is and let you read it for yourself... Brother Glen

 

[Christina1]

Well if I said that to you as a new Christian, would you believe me?... I would just hand you a Bible, show you where it is and let you read it for yourself... Brother Glen

Alright. Let's think about this... Humor me, Brother Glenn. Please. Take a moment and scroll up to the top. Look at the poll. Take a moment to consider how each and every option is a unique perspective.

See all those options? That's what you get if you just hand someone a Bible. You can't just hand someone a Bible because everyone is going to see things differently in that very same Bible.

If it was that easy, then this thread wouldn't exist. The whole point of this thread is that different Christians see things differently. Even if we all agree on the number of commandments as being ten, you still have 3-4 different ways to divide those ten commandments as indicated by the poll.

So I have created, in the spirit of fellowship and brotherly love, a thread where brothers and sisters in Christ can gather and share their insights on these 17 verses from Exodus because it's interesting to learn about how other members of the Body see it.

So I'm going to ask you the same question since it is the topic of the thread: If I were to ask you what the ten commandments are, what would you say to me?

 

[Oseas3]

So I'm going to ask you the same question since it is the topic of the thread: If I were to ask you what the ten commandments are, what would you say to me?

It's a silly discussion.

Romans 2:5-16
5 After thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, ETERNAL LIFE:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, INDIGNATION AND WRATH,

9 TRIBULATION and ANGUISH, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (Get ready)

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.

12 For as many as have sinned WITHOUT LAW(the Gentiles) shall also perish WITHOUT LAW: and as many as have SINNED IN THE LAW (THE JEWS)shall be Judged BY THE LAW;

13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before GOD, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

14 For when the Gentiles, WHICH HAVE NOT THE LAW, do by nature the things contained in the Law, these, HAVING NOT THE LAW, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

16 In the Day when GOD shall Judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. (this Day arrived: that is the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium, the millennium of the Righteous Judgment Seat of Christ.)

GET READY, the Word is GOD, understand: self-executing.

The fullness of Gentiles arrived, there will be only and only severe punishment in the Earth as a whole. The days will be shortened, there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And EXCEPT these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

GET READY

John 3:34-36

34 For he whom GOD hath sent speaketh the words of GOD: for GOD giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. (The Word is GOD, self-executable)

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into His hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the WRATH of GOD abideth on him.

Be careful or else GET READY

 

[Christina1]

It's a silly discussion.

Then why are you here? Please leave this conversation if you think it's so silly.

This isn't hard.

How do you personally get to ten commandments?

Do you split verses 3-6?
Do you split verse 17?
Do you adopt verse 2 as the first?
Or do you do something else that we haven't thought of yet?

You have an opportunity to share your understanding of the ten commandments. What are they? List them. Tell us what you think.

That's the topic of discussion. If it's a silly topic then go somewhere else. Please.

 

[Christina1]

Must be a serious enough topic if some Biblical scholar thought it worthy to include A WHOLE PARAGRAPH on this subject as a footnote in the Holy Bible:

The precise numbering and division of these precepts into “ten commandments” is somewhat uncertain. Traditionally among Catholics and Lutherans vv. 1–6 are considered as only one commandment, and v. 17 as two. The Anglican, Greek Orthodox, and Reformed churches count vv. 1–6 as two, and v. 17 as one. Cf. Dt 5:6–21. The traditional designation as “ten” is not found here but in 34:28 (and also Dt 4:13 and 10:4), where these precepts are alluded to literally as “the ten words.” That they were originally written on two tablets appears in Ex 32:15–16; 34:28–29; Dt 4:13; 10:2–4.

The present form of the commands is a product of a long development, as is clear from the fact that the individual precepts vary considerably in length and from the slightly different formulation of Dt 5:6–21 (see especially vv. 12–15 and 21). Indeed they represent a mature formulation of a traditional morality. Why this specific selection of commands should be set apart is not entirely clear. None of them is unique in the Old Testament and all of the laws which follow are also from God and equally binding on the Israelites. Even so, this collection represents a privileged expression of God’s moral demands on Israel and is here set apart from the others as a direct, unmediated communication of God to the Israelites and the basis of the covenant being concluded on Sinai.

 

[MrW]

Great. You've made your point. You believe there are ten commandments. Now how about the second part of the question?
What are the ten commandments? If I was completely new to the Christian religion and I asked you what the ten commandments were, what would you say to me?

It’s not a matter of belief.

God’s Bible states it.