A pastor’s qualifications:

[DHK]

I am agreeing with you about the "husband of one wife". I wholeheartedly agree. Yet, if a man divorces his wife for sexual immorality, sleeping around on him, he has every right to marry again. And yes, some marriages, the husband may have done something to cause his wife to look elsewhere. But not every divorce is that way. No need to make it a "blanket statement"...

That is the whole point. It is a blanket statement. There are no qualifiers, no exceptions.

Again, let's visit 1 Corinthians 7....

First who is Paul addressing?

Paul, a called apostle of Jesus Christ, through the will of God, and Sosthenes the brother, to the assembly of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called saints, with all those calling upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place -- both theirs and ours: (1 Cor. 1:1,2 YLT)

Paul is addressing the local church at Corinth. He isn't addressing the lost in Corinth, but the believers.


"And to the rest I speak -- not the Lord -- if any brother hath a wife unbelieving, and she is pleased to dwell with him, let him not send her away; and a woman who hath a husband unbelieving, and he is pleased to dwell with her, let her not send him away; for the unbelieving husband hath been sanctified in the wife, and the unbelieving wife hath been sanctified in the husband; otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy. And, if the unbelieving doth separate himself -- let him separate himself: the brother or the sister is not under servitude in such [cases], and in peace hath God called us; for what, hast thou known, O wife, whether the husband thou shalt save? or what, hast thou known, O husband, whether the wife thou shalt save?"

If your wife looks at you one day and says she's tired of the married life, are you going to hold her against her will? If you do, that's kidnapping and carries 20 years. How is it that you would be held accountable for her sins? If you're a sinner and you divorce and remarry, that is forgiven as well. All sins are blotted out. In what Paul wrote, if the wife leaves, let them leave. That Brother or Sister is no longer in bondage to that marriage. When they left, they broke that covenant.

You read into that passage that which is not there. There is no divorce in that passage. You inserted that. What does it say:
And, if the unbelieving doth separate himself -- let him separate himself:
The key word is "separate." There are many who have separated but not divorced. There is already enough friction in the family, especially with children involved, no need to make it more complicated for them. Plus you ignore the plain teaching of other scripture.

[FONT=&quot]Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.[/FONT]
--The one who remarries lives in a state of adultery.

`And I say to you, that, whoever may put away his wife, if not for whoredom, and may marry another, doth commit adultery; and he who did marry her that hath been put away, doth commit adultery.'

I know you don't like that translation, but regardless, Jesus gave them a 'qualifier' in regards to divorce. If a woman plays the harlot, she broke the covenant of marriage. The husband was not the one who did, and is not held accountable for his sins.

You keep saying that Jesus never contradicted Himself in the four gospels, and I agree. How about this verse?

No he doesn't. And that is the reason I believe I am right in my overall interpretation. Your interpretation contradicts passages like the one I just quoted:
[FONT=&quot]Mark 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.[/FONT]

And Jesus said to him, `Verily I say to thee, that to-day, this night, before a cock shall crow twice, thrice thou shalt deny me.'(Mark 14:30 YLT)

Mark is the only one who recorded Jesus saying the words 'before the cock crows TWICE. What about this verse?

So what is the problem?

 

[DHK]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 14:30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

The cock crowed. They all recorded that fact. There is no doubt.
Mark is the only one that recorded how many times he crowed. It is an added detail. It is not a contradiction.
[/FONT]

 

[convicted1]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 26:34 Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Matthew 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 14:30 And Jesus saith unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this day, even in this night, before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Mark 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 22:34 And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]John 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, till thou hast denied me thrice.

The cock crowed. They all recorded that fact. There is no doubt.
Mark is the only one that recorded how many times he crowed. It is an added detail. It is not a contradiction.
[/FONT]

Precisely my point. :thumbsup:

Now, did God divorce Israel once?

 

[convicted1]

--if any one may will to do His will, he shall know concerning the teaching, whether it is of God, or -- I do speak from myself.(John 7:17 YLT)

--every Writing [is] God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that [is] in righteousness, that the man of God may be fitted -- for every good work having been completed.(2 Tim. 3:16,17 YLT)

--`Ye search the Writings, because ye think in them to have life age-during, and these are they that are testifying concerning me; and ye do not will to come unto me, that ye may have life;(John 5:39,40 YLT)...Jesus was addressing the Jews who had just witnessed Jesus healing a man who had been bed-ridden for 38 years. They witnessed what Jesus did, knew his infirmity and yet did not believe who He said He was.

--and the natural man doth not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for to him they are foolishness, and he is not able to know [them], because spiritually they are discerned;(1 Cor. 2:14 YLT)

--because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,(Rom. 8:7 YLT)


How many of these apply to the lost? Which ones?

 

[convicted1]

Greek word translated 'depart' in 1 Cor. 7:15 χωρίζω


chōrizō

I.to separate, divide, part, put asunder, to separate one's self from, to depart
A.
to leave a husband or wife
i.
of divorce

B.
to depart, go away


Divorce is a viable word used in that passage....

 

[convicted1]

Saying, `Lo, one sendeth away his wife, And she hath gone from him, And she hath been to another man, Doth he turn back unto her again? Greatly defiled is not that land? And thou hast committed whoredom with many lovers, And turn again to Me, an affirmation of Jehovah. Lift thine eyes to the high places, and see, Where hast thou not been lain with? On the ways thou hast sat for them, As an Arab in a wilderness, And thou defilest the land, By thy fornications, and by thy wickedness. And withheld are showers, and gathered rain hath not been. The forehead of a whorish woman thou hast, Thou hast refused to be ashamed. Hast thou not henceforth called to Me, `My father, Thou [art] the leader of my youth? Doth He keep to the age? watch for ever?' Lo, these things thou hast spoken, And thou dost the evil things, and prevailest. And Jehovah saith unto me, in the days of Josiah the king, `Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? She is going on every high mountain, and unto the place of every green tree, and committeth fornication there. And I say, after her doing all these, Unto Me thou dost turn back, and she hath not turned back, and see [it] doth her treacherous sister Judah. And I see when (for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery) I have sent her away, and I give the bill of her divorce unto her, that treacherous Judah her sister hath not feared, and goeth and committeth fornication -- she also."(Jer. 3:1-8 YLT)


Now what about this?

 

[DHK]

Now what about this?

OT comparisons are hardly worth using.
The Lord told Isaiah to walk naked through the land, but he doesn't command us to do the same thing. Often the prophets did things as object lessons for the people.
[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 20:3 And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;[/FONT]

Hosea was commanded to marry a harlot. When she departed and became a prostitute the Lord commanded him to go after her and buy her out of the slave market and take her as his wife again. It was a picture of redemption.
The Lord doesn't command us to marry harlots. This was an object lesson.

Matthew says about the "writing of divorcement" that it was given because of the hardness of their hearts, but from the beginning it was not so. Why?
In Jesus own words:
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.[/FONT]

 

[convicted1]

OT comparisons are hardly worth using.
The Lord told Isaiah to walk naked through the land, but he doesn't command us to do the same thing. Often the prophets did things as object lessons for the people.
[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 20:3 And the LORD said, Like as my servant Isaiah hath walked naked and barefoot three years for a sign and wonder upon Egypt and upon Ethiopia;[/FONT]

Hosea was commanded to marry a harlot. When she departed and became a prostitute the Lord commanded him to go after her and buy her out of the slave market and take her as his wife again. It was a picture of redemption.
The Lord doesn't command us to marry harlots. This was an object lesson.

Matthew says about the "writing of divorcement" that it was given because of the hardness of their hearts, but from the beginning it was not so. Why?
In Jesus own words:
[FONT=&quot]Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.[/FONT]

OT comparisons are hardly worth using? All scripture is profitable for correction, for doctrine, &c. They link together. You keep saying "God's against divorce", yet I've showed you undeniable proof that God divorced Israel. I have shot a gaping hole in your argument and you have no answer(s) for it...admit it...

 

[convicted1]

Now, why did God divorce Isarel, Brother DHK?

 

[convicted1]

If you answer 'yes', Brother DHK, why did God divorce Israel?

 

[convicted1]

DHK here...

J/K....

Thanks for the civil debate. :thumbsup:

 

[DHK]

OT comparisons are hardly worth using? All scripture is profitable for correction, for doctrine, &c. They link together. You keep saying "God's against divorce", yet I've showed you undeniable proof that God divorced Israel. I have shot a gaping hole in your argument and you have no answer(s) for it...admit it...

I thought that would provoke a response as soon as I worded it that way.
It is hardly worth using when not interpreted correctly. As I have done: allow the NT to interpret the OT. That is what Christ did and we have his interpretation.
Why did God divorce Israel?
Why does God call Christians adulterers and adulteresses? (and there are many of them). It is for the same reason.
Why is there such a severe warning at the end of the first epistle of John:
"Little children keep yourself from idols."
It is still applicable today.

[FONT=&quot]James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.[/FONT]
--Not only adulterers and adulteresses, but also the very enemy of God.
This is written to Christians.

 

[DHK]

Thanks for the civil debate. :thumbsup:

Any time.

 

[convicted1]

I thought that would provoke a response as soon as I worded it that way.
It is hardly worth using when not interpreted correctly. As I have done: allow the NT to interpret the OT. That is what Christ did and we have his interpretation.
Why did God divorce Israel?
Why does God call Christians adulterers and adulteresses? (and there are many of them). It is for the same reason.
Why is there such a severe warning at the end of the first epistle of John:
"Little children keep yourself from idols."
It is still applicable today.

[FONT=&quot]James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.[/FONT]
--Not only adulterers and adulteresses, but also the very enemy of God.
This is written to Christians.

You're missing the point I am making. You have repeatedly stated God hates divorce. I agree with that, yet with a caveat. God allows it in acts of adultery/fornication. God divorced Israel because they were playing the adultress/fornicator by worshipping idols. That is why divorce is permissible in such cases...

 

[DHK]

You're missing the point I am making. You have repeatedly stated God hates divorce. I agree with that, yet with a caveat. God allows it in acts of adultery/fornication. God divorced Israel because they were playing the adultress/fornicator by worshipping idols. That is why divorce is permissible in such cases...

I don't believe your analogy is correct neither your position on divorce.
First, God has blinded Israel for a season. There is still a remnant. "And so all Israel shall be saved."
Second, you also believe in eternal security.
Will God divorce his bride?

You must deal with the passage in James 4. Why the adultery? What does God do with an adulterous bride? Divorce her? The accusation is there. The sin is present worldwide all over Christendom--worldly Christians. God hates it. Worldliness amongst Christians is as the enemy of God.

The same principles in the OT also apply in the NT.
God's people are playing the harlot, and they are committing idolatry by not putting God first. Anything that comes between a Christian and His Lord is an idol. For many that could be sports.

 

[convicted1]

'Yes or no'....did God divorce Israel?

 

[OldRegular]

'Yes or no'....did God divorce Israel?

Interesting question for a dispensationalist!

 

[DHK]

'Yes or no'....did God divorce Israel?

Yes indeed. One might say that Israel lost her salvation every time she apostatized in the Book of Judges, and had to be delivered by a Judge. So these analogies do not fit.

 

[JonC]

Yes indeed. One might say that Israel lost her salvation every time she apostatized in the Book of Judges, and had to be delivered by a Judge. So these analogies do not fit.

Looking at analogies, how about the book of Hosea?

 

[DHK]

Looking at analogies, how about the book of Hosea?

I already addressed that.
God used the prophets often as object lessons to teach Israel.
Isaiah walked naked for three years, but the Lord would not ask us to do that.
Neither would the Lord ask us to marry a prostitute. The prostitute ran away prostituted herself again. She sold herself as a slave. The Lord commanded Hosea to go and buy her back, and so he did. It is a picture of God's grace and His redemption.