A pastor’s qualifications:

[stilllearning]

In 1Timothy God gives the local Church some qualifications for prospective pastors.
But over the last 50 years or so, I have been watching more and more congregations, overlook these qualifications, in “their search” for a pastor.

Where do you stand on these?

(1)I see these qualifications as God’s Word and to be followed to the letter.
(2)I see these qualifications as important, but other qualifications are equally important.
(3)I see these qualifications as old fashioned and needing to be ignored.
(4)I reject these qualifications as error and am waiting for an updated Bible.

 

[Salty]

PART II

Interrupting the qualifications

Is Paul telling Timothy divorced men cannot be a pastor?
Is Paul telling Timothy single men cannot be a pastor?
Is Paul telling Timothy that men with rebellious adult children cannot be a pastor?
Not a novice- when is he no longer a novice?

 

[stilllearning]

Hello Salty

Good(to the point), questions.

Is Paul telling Timothy divorced men cannot(shouldn’t) be a pastor?
Yes “the husband of one wife”

Is Paul telling Timothy single men cannot(shouldn’t) be a pastor?
Yes “the husband of one wife”

Is Paul telling Timothy that men with rebellious adult children cannot(shouldn’t) be a pastor?
No “having his children in subjection with all gravity” (Children under his discipline)
Adult children wouldn’t apply.

Not a novice- when is he no longer a novice? (When a man can serve without pride.)
“lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil”

 

[annsni]

Hello Salty

Good(to the point), questions.

Is Paul telling Timothy divorced men cannot(shouldn’t) be a pastor?
Yes “the husband of one wife”

A divorced and remarried man or woman is still the husband of one wife and the wife of one husband. It's if they never divorced the first one that it would be an issue.

 

[webdog]

Agreed with all of Salty's points with the exception of Ann's point concerning divorce. Divorce is permissible given the situation.

 

[Revmitchell]

Agreed with all of Salty's points with the exception of Ann's point concerning divorce. Divorce is permissible given the situation.

She wasn't saying divorce isn't permissible, she is saying remarriage isn't permissible if you never divorced the first one.

 

[go2church]

There has to be other qualifications, otherwise the first person meeting the qualifications listed should be extended a call. obviously that doesn't happen so, pulpit committees are using other qualifications.

The pool of people we have to choose from to fill the leadership of the church is flawed, everyone of them. Caution must be made not to use these qualifications in a legalistic manner. Remember, we are people of grace, we sound act accordingly.

 

[JonC]

There has to be other qualifications, otherwise the first person meeting the qualifications listed should be extended a call. obviously that doesn't happen so, pulpit committees are using other qualifications.

Just because one is qualified doesn't mean they should be extended a call.

 

[Don]

A divorced and remarried man or woman is still the husband of one wife and the wife of one husband. It's if they never divorced the first one that it would be an issue.

Tell ya what: I need some of those more learned folk here, especially those that understand Greek, to help me out.

The way I understand it, mia (the word translated "one" in 1 Tim 3) is the feminine form of hice (the numerical found in 1 Tim 5:9).

If that's true, if the two words are related, are we saying the phrasing found in 1 Tim 5 means that the wife could have been the wife of more than one husband, if legally divorced?

Or, if they're related, do we conclude that if 1 Tim 5 means the wife could only have one husband, then the bishop could only have one wife--not one wife at a time?

Or are the two words not related, and my questions are invalid?

But even if they are, what do we do with the fact that Jesus said divorce was not meant to be (except for fornication); that Moses allowed it to pacify the people? (Matt 5, Matt 19, Mark10)

And just to muddy the water, one of the additional requirements is one who rules his house well. We aren't supposed to look at each individual requirement, but all of them as a whole. For example, if the children aren't in subjection, then he also has the problem of not ruling his house well. If he's divorced, is there not a question of how well he rules his house?

(By the way: I would definitely say that divorce before salvation is a huge loophole that better people than me have to figure out; but I've known people who will preach, but refuse the pastorship because they were divorced before they were saved)

 

[Revmitchell]

Any time we hold one's past and repented sin against them we create a theological problem.

 

[Don]

Any time we hold one's past and repented sin against them we create a theological problem.

Agreed -- if they've repented of the sin.

 

[Revmitchell]

Agreed -- if they've repented of the sin.

That is the key.

 

[PreachTony]

There has to be other qualifications, otherwise the first person meeting the qualifications listed should be extended a call. obviously that doesn't happen so, pulpit committees are using other qualifications.

Of course there are other qualifications. But I do believe these listed in scripture should be held to. If you find a man that meets the qualifications listed, but he's completely unamicable towards the flock, or his personality grates on others to the point of strife, then he shouldn't be considered, even though he fits the scriptural qualifications listed.

The pool of people we have to choose from to fill the leadership of the church is flawed, everyone of them. Caution must be made not to use these qualifications in a legalistic manner. Remember, we are people of grace, we sound act accordingly.

Yes, the pool of candidates is flawed. Find one non-flawed human being living today. It's impossible. That doesn't mean we can sit back and say "well, candidate A fits 80% of the qualifications, that's good enough." It's not good enough, or at least it shouldn't be good enough. We should trust that God will send along the right man for the flock, meeting the qualifications He set forth in His Word.

 

[convicted1]

You're either forgiven or you're not. You're sins...all of them...are blotted out, or they are not. God's forgiveness goes waaaaay further than man's does,

In Jeremiah 31....


"Lo, days are coming, an affirmation of Jehovah, And I have made with the house of Israel And with the house of Judah a new covenant, Not like the covenant that I made with their fathers, In the day of My laying hold on their hand, To bring them out of the land of Egypt, In that they made void My covenant, And I ruled over them -- an affirmation of Jehovah. For this [is] the covenant that I make, With the house of Israel, after those days, An affirmation of Jehovah, I have given My law in their inward part, And on their heart I do write it, And I have been to them for God, And they are to me for a people. And they do not teach any more Each his neighbour, and each his brother, Saying, Know ye Jehovah, For they all know Me, from their least unto their greatest, An affirmation of Jehovah; For I pardon their iniquity, And of their sin I make mention no more."(vss 31-34 YLT)


Apostle Paul reiterates this in Hebrews 8....

"Lo, days come, saith the Lord, and I will complete with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, a new covenant, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking [them] by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt -- because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them, saith the Lord, -- because this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel, after those days, saith the Lord, giving My laws into their mind, and upon their hearts I will write them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me for a people; and they shall not teach each his neighbour, and each his brother, saying, Know thou the Lord, because they shall all know Me from the small one of them unto the great one of them, because I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawlessnesses I will remember no more;' -- in the saying `new,' He hath made the first old, and what doth become obsolete and is old [is] nigh disappearing."(vss 8-13 YLT)

And in Hebrews 10....


"This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, giving My laws on their hearts, and upon their minds I will write them,' and `their sins and their lawlessness I will remember no more;"(vss 16,17 YLT)


Now, let us go to 1 Corinthians 6....


"have ye not known that the unrighteous the reign of God shall not inherit? be not led astray; neither whoremongers, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, the reign of God shall inherit. And certain of you were these! but ye were washed, but ye were sanctified, but ye were declared righteous, in the name of the Lord Jesus, and in the Spirit of our God."(vss 9-11 YLT)


I will close this with 2 Corinthian 5:17...

so that if any one [is] in Christ -- [he is] a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things.


Once someone has been saved, their sins are blotted out by the blood. They're never brought up by God before you ever again. If God has forgiven someone who has been married ten times in his sinner days, the wife he has at that time, is the one wife he has. And he is the husband of one wife.

 

[DHK]

You're either forgiven or you're not. You're sins...all of them...are blotted out, or they are not. God's forgiveness goes waaaaay further than man's does,

Forgiveness does; consequence doesn't.
A man gets drunk and gets behind the wheel of his car. He gets into a terrible accident. He loses both legs and will never walk again. Through the tragic accident he comes to Christ. His sins are forgiven. Does that mean God will give him the use of his legs back?

 

[convicted1]

Forgiveness does; consequence doesn't.
A man gets drunk and gets behind the wheel of his car. He gets into a terrible accident. He loses both legs and will never walk again. Through the tragic accident he comes to Christ. His sins are forgiven. Does that mean God will give him the use of his legs back?

People are fully justified or they aren't...

 

[PreachTony]

People are fully justified or they aren't...

I think I agree with DHK on this one. Even when a person is forgiven of their sins, it does not mean they are free of the consequences of their sins. Sure, God no longer holds them accountable of those sins, but no where in the Bible does it say that forgiveness of our sins equals freedom from the consequences of our sins.

 

[convicted1]

From Romans 8...
28 And we have known that to those loving God all things do work together for good, to those who are called according to purpose;
29 because whom He did foreknow, He also did fore-appoint, conformed to the image of His Son, that he might be first-born among many brethren;
30 and whom He did fore-appoint, these also He did call; and whom He did call, these also He declared righteous; and whom He declared righteous, these also He did glorify.
31 What, then, shall we say unto these things? if God [is] for us, who [is] against us?
32 He who indeed His own Son did not spare, but for us all did deliver him up, how shall He not also with him the all things grant to us?
33 Who shall lay a charge against the choice ones of God? God [is] He that is declaring righteous,
34 who [is] he that is condemning? Christ [is] He that died, yea, rather also, was raised up; who is also on the right hand of God -- who also doth intercede for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of the Christ? tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 (according as it hath been written -- `For Thy sake we are put to death all the day long, we were reckoned as sheep of slaughter,')
37 but in all these we more than conquer, through him who loved us;
38 for I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor messengers, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present,
39 nor things about to be, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, that [is] in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[convicted1]

Isaiah 38:17 Lo, to peace He changed for me bitterness, And Thou hast delighted in my soul without corruption, For Thou hast cast behind Thy back all my sins.

 

[convicted1]

Psalms 103:12 As the distance of east from west He hath put far from us our transgressions.


We're either totally unshackled from our past sins and made righteous in Christ or we're not...