A POSITIVE Emerging Illustration

[christianyouth]

ChristianYouth...

You posted to another poster this...



ChristianYouth, I say this to you with all due respect...




HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!!!!



My goodness, what in the world are you thinking?

I happen to be calvinistic in my view of things, but those who are arminian are our brothers and sisters, and they are not diseased or "toxic". They see things differently than we do, but their theology is not "toxic". It might be in error sometimes but it isnt "toxic". I personally have been blessed greatly by arminian teaching and preaching as I have with calvinistic teaching and preaching.

I dont agree with them on everything but millions have surely been born again as a result of their witness in this world, as with our witness.

Saddened,

Mike

d28, I think you miss understood that post. I didn't say anything against him as a person, I didn't say, "YOUR TOXIC", I said that the theology of Arminianism, or free-willism is toxic. When I first embraced Calvinism like 8 months ago, I didn't think it was a big deal. I continued to go to my Arminian church and loved it. Then, we approach issues, church growth methodology, lordship salvation, lifestyle evangelism, and we see that how one takes a stand on God's sovereignty in salvation radically effects how one approaches these other issues. The myth that Calvinism only has effects on ones soteriology is unfounded. If you have spent time on the BB, you know that so many doctrinal debates and different disputes turn into a CvA thread.

I know that quote is bigoted, because we live in a post modern age. Our culture has impacted us, and we think that God gave us a book that is ambigious and he just wants us to be in a state of constant flux. I don't think that. I believe in what the REformers called, the perspiscuity of scripture, or the clarity of scriptures. That God gave us a book that we can understand through diligent study and the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Yes, that means coming to firm convictions on the Calvinist/Arminian issues. Truth is knowable, therefor I do not sympathize with people who willingly reject the Doctrines of Grace.

 

[D28guy]

christianyouth...

"

d28, I think you miss understood that post. I didn't say anything against him as a person, I didn't say, "YOUR TOXIC", I said that the theology of Arminianism, or free-willism is toxic."

I understand that, but still...to call Arminiansim "toxic" is a very negative tag to to place on those who holds that view, even if its a "2nd hand" tag.(meaning, even if its only directed to the theology) Much MUCH too strong of a term.

Arminianism is a very God honoring and scripture honoring view. It is not "toxic". You dont agree with every aspect of it, and neither do I. But that doesnt make it "toxic". Its simply a very worthy view of things that some of us do not agree with in every detail.

"Our culture has impacted us, and we think that God gave us a book that is ambigious and he just wants us to be in a state of constant flux."

No...God has given us an unchanging standard. And He has gone even further and given us the Holy Spirit as the interpreter of the scriptures. The problem is... none of us have perfect hearing.

We are all still flawed, and always will be until our homecoming. We are "looking through a glass dimly", but "then face to face". God knows their will be differing views, and He tells us to allow it to be...

"Let your brother be fully convinced in His own mind, for who are you to judge anothers servant. To his own master he will stand or fall, and God will make Him stand"

"I don't think that. I believe in what the REformers called, the perspiscuity of scripture, or the clarity of scriptures."

So do I. And so do the Arminians.

"That God gave us a book that we can understand through diligent study and the illumination of the Holy Spirit. Yes, that means coming to firm convictions on the Calvinist/Arminian issues."

Agreed.

"Truth is knowable, therefor I do not sympathize with people who willingly reject the Doctrines of Grace."

They dont reject the doctrine of grace. They just see it a little differently than you and I. I know some people who are so strongly proclaiming the doctrines of grace that they are accused of going too far regarding Gods grace. Yet they are Arminians.


God bless,

Mike

 

[D28guy]

(Edit...duplicate post)

 

[christianyouth]

Arminianism is a very God honoring and scripture honoring view. It is not "toxic". You dont agree with every aspect of it, and neither do I. But that doesnt make it "toxic". Its simply a very worthy view of things that some of us do not agree with in every detail.

D28, when I say Arminianism, i should just say Non-Calvinism, or works based salvation. Free-willism is not God honoring, it asserts that man is the master of his salvation. It is a subtle form of humanism, that exalts the free-will of man over the sovreignty of God. I said it is toxic, because it affects every aspect of ones theology. It sets the tone for ones whole worldview. Arminians jettison the verses about God's sovreignty in salvation, not because of biblical contradictions, but for emotional reasons. Two days ago I engaged in debate with my Pastor and Youth Pastor about this issue, and they said, "Why would you want to be with a God like that for eternity?" and said, "That's a differnet God." Calvinists and non-calvinists have completely different notions on who YHWH is.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

D28, when I say Arminianism, i should just say Non-Calvinism, or works based salvation. Free-willism is not God honoring, it asserts that man is the master of his salvation. It is a subtle form of humanism, that exalts the free-will of man over the sovreignty of God. I said it is toxic, because it affects every aspect of ones theology. It sets the tone for ones whole worldview. Arminians jettison the verses about God's sovreignty in salvation, not because of biblical contradictions, but for emotional reasons. Two days ago I engaged in debate with my Pastor and Youth Pastor about this issue, and they said, "Why would you want to be with a God like that for eternity?" and said, "That's a differnet God." Calvinists and non-calvinists have completely different notions on who YHWH is.

I do not know if you are just misinformed or you are making an attempt to characterize this position in such a way that you can gain maximum demonization out of it. Either way it is incorrect.

 

[Cutter]

Free-willism is not God honoring, it asserts that man is the master of his salvation.

HOGWASH!

Free will does not lead one to believe he is the master of his salvation no more than Calvinism leads one to believe he is the master of his. Free will means that God has made us free moral agents and made us more competent and intelligent than any other portion of his creation. He wanted to give us the choice just as He gave to the children of Israel in, Deuteronomy 11:26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
:27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
:28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

If a man goes to hell it is because he rejects the sacrifice Christ paid for his sin, not because God will tell him, "Sorry, I didn't choose you."

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The above verse is explicit. He that heareth, he that believeth.
Sounds like a choice to me.

 

[preachinjesus]

nevermind, it has all been answered

 

[Jimmy C]

That church was predestined from the foundation of the world to go into that community and spread the gospel, I for one love that they are going into a community that has been neglected and are meeting the peolple where they are - seems to me a certain Savior did that about 2000 years ago.

Seeing as how the pastor of that church is from Southern Seminary, odds are that he is reformed in his theology as well. My take on this congregation is that they employ some of the good aspects of the emerging church, without the watered down, experience based theology what one normally thinks of the emergent church. Its past time for our churches to move back from the suburbs and into the innercities, where they can have a greater impact on all aspects of thier communities lives.

I applaud CY's zeal - as has been said many times, its too bad that youth is wasted on the young!

 

[dan e.]

ho hum......guess this thread is about over with!

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

That church was predestined from the foundation of the world to go into that community and spread the gospel, I for one love that they are going into a community that has been neglected and are meeting the peolple where they are - seems to me a certain Savior did that about 2000 years ago.

I am not sure what you mean by this. But it has been used as the battle cry for those who want the Kingdom to be enslaved to subcultures. We go to where they are not act like them in the process.

Seeing as how the pastor of that church is from Southern Seminary, odds are that he is reformed in his theology as well. My take on this congregation is that they employ some of the good aspects of the emerging church, without the watered down, experience based theology what one normally thinks of the emergent church. Its past time for our churches to move back from the suburbs and into the innercities, where they can have a greater impact on all aspects of thier communities lives

We most certainly need to get out of our pristine comfort zones and stop being afraid to be involved with people who have current issues.