A question about Calvinism

[Me4Him]

Man in his natural state does not have the ability to know good/evil.

Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Ge 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

You won't know you're "naked" until you know good/evil.

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

Man is born dead in his trespasses and has no desire to come out, nor can man freely choose.

Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,

Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Ro 10:21 But to Israel (and the world) he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Mt 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.

When God comes in and regenerates man, man can see his sad state and then is able to embrace God. There is no good in natural man, there is common grace that allows a man to do perceived good but they never do it with right motives I will paste this and hopefully you'll better understand:

God gave the law that man could "KNOW" his "Evil" when compared to the "Good", who hasn't heard of the "Ten Commandments",

but whether man will "confess" to his sin or not is a "Choice" left up to man.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds (Sin) should be reproved.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

 

[Robert Snow]

Ge 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Ge 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked;

You won't know you're "naked" until you know good/evil.

Joh 9:41 Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.








Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,

Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Ro 10:21 But to Israel (and the world) he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Mt 22:3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.




God gave the law that man could "KNOW" his "Evil" when compared to the "Good", who hasn't heard of the "Ten Commandments",

but whether man will "confess" to his sin or not is a "Choice" left up to man.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds (Sin) should be reproved.

Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey;

whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Amazing how reading the Scripture for what it says destroys Calvinism.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi Robert Snow

You said.........

Amazing how reading the Scripture for what it says destroys Calvinism.

You are exactly right.
--------------------------------------------------
Great post, Me4Him

 

[TomMann]

Amazing how reading the Scripture for what it says destroys Calvinism.

There is not an argument nor scripture that I could present that has not been presented at some time or other on this board. And I am sure you have heard them all. I remember back in 2002 when I first joined this BB and the C/A debate raged in its own forum.

I am reminded that it is not my job to persuade anyone.... just to present the truth to the best of my ability and without fear. Yes, I believe there are ample scriptures that support arminian theology. The only problem is that most of them (as "Choose this day who you will serve") deal with man's choosing to follow the law and being rewarded if? he were able.

Yes, I see arminiamism as a works theology, based on what man has done to satisfy God! If the doctrines of grace are not true, I greatly fear that all mankind is lost.

 

[gb93433]

Yes, I see arminiamism as a works theology, based on what man has done to satisfy God! If the doctrines of grace are not true, I greatly fear that all mankind is lost.

Is there an ism that does not have its origin in man? Isms such as calvinism, and arminianism.

 

[stilllearning]

Hi TomMann

You said..............

“I see arminiamism as a works theology:”

I fully agree.
--------------------------------------------------
But that is no reason to be come a Calvinist!

 

[gb93433]

Yes, I see arminiamism as a works theology, based on what man has done to satisfy God! If the doctrines of grace are not true, I greatly fear that all mankind is lost.

Could it also be that calvinism is a refusal to recognize man's responsibility given to him by God and creating legalism instead of grace? Just asking.

 

[historyb]

No the doctrines of grace are precisely the opposite

 

[Rippon]

Could it also be that calvinism is a refusal to recognize man's responsibility given to him by God and creating legalism instead of grace? Just asking.

No, gbism promotes that false characterization of Calvinism. If you would just do the slightest bit of reading you would be in better shape. Why don't you look at Calvinistic confessions, look at their actual writings. Just as Arminianism plays down the sovereignty of God -- hyper-Calvinism negates man's accountability. True Calvinism has a biblical balance of affirming man's responsibility and God's sovereignty.

 

[Rippon]

Why not? You yourself called someone a heretic in another thread for the subject of God and evil,

You do not read that well as has been demonstrated time and time again. I said that the belief that God is the author of evil is heretical. I didn't say that anyone was a heretic. A number of his beliefs may be perfectly biblical.

even when you were clearly wrong on the matter.

Well, as you have acknowledged -- you have been wrong about that. You confessed :"I stand corrected."

 

[Rippon]

I believe very strongly in the doctrines of grace and sovreignty (sic).

No you don't. Your posts clearly are evidence that you don't.

However, the way you express yourself on the subject and the way you relate it to Scripture makes a case for the other side.

You have admitted your error regarding this to Allan.

Why not read the Bible before you post?

The thing is -- I have. This is just a cheap shot from your empty barrel. Previously you were too KJV-oriented to accept the wording of many other versions regarding Isaiah 45:7. Then you confessed that you were blinded by your narrowness and realized how wrong you had been.

 

[Rippon]

Amazing how reading the Scripture for what it says destroys Calvinism.

The sentence above is today's joke.

 

[saturneptune]

Had you read my posts in the past, you would see I believe very strongly in God's sovreignty and grace. Now, I was wrong about the creation of evil, and admitted it. It is my fault for always going back to KJV as a reference.

Your problem has nothing to do with theology. I has to do with edifying posts, grace, and ever admitting you are wrong. It seems very funny to me that a person would continue to slice and dice after another person admits he was wrong.

I will repost what I said above. If it were up to me, the instant you called someone a heretic or associated them with a belief that in your opinion is heretical, you would be gone.

 

[Rippon]

Now, I was wrong about the creation of evil, and admitted it. It is my fault for always going back to KJV as a reference.

Good for you to own up to that.

Your problem has nothing to do with theology. I(sic) has to do with edifying posts, grace, and ever admitting you are wrong.

You're actually wrong about that.:laugh:

It seems very funny to me that a person would continue to slice and dice after another person admits he was wrong.

You call it slicing and dicing. I simply wanted to give my response for the record. I harbor no ill-will toward you.

I will repost what I said above. If it were up to me, the instant you called someone a heretic or associated them with a belief that in your opinion is heretical, you would be gone.

I have never (to my knowledge) called another poster a heretic on the BB. I have said that a particular teaching that some idividuals have had were heretical -- big difference.

It seems you harbor some ill-will toward me. You constantly repeat that same old mantra. Let it go man.

 

[gb93433]

No, gbism promotes that false characterization of Calvinism. If you would just do the slightest bit of reading you would be in better shape. Why don't you look at Calvinistic confessions, look at their actual writings. Just as Arminianism plays down the sovereignty of God -- hyper-Calvinism negates man's accountability. True Calvinism has a biblical balance of affirming man's responsibility and God's sovereignty.

Calvinism seems to have many heads. Some godly and some godless. Some honest and some false. Some have primary knowledge and others believe second hand opinions. The problem I have is that if calvinism is from scripture then why restate scripture? If it is not then it is false and should be tossed out. If calvinmism is equivalent to scripture then one of them is not needed.

I have read Calvin's Institutes and have his commentaries. I find very few who claim to be calvinists who have actually read what Calvin wrote.

Have you read Calvin's Institutes?

 

[gb93433]

If it were up to me, the instant you called someone a heretic or associated them with a belief that in your opinion is heretical, you would be gone.

We need to be reminded of when Jesus was asked about divorce. He did not address what each man standing there believed. He addressed what God wanted from the beginning. That is what I usually find when I seriously study the historical background of an issue. The issue is seldom settled with its solution falling into any camp but rather something totally different than what the politicians teach. That is what happened when Jesus addressed the issues too.

 

[Robert Snow]

Could it also be that calvinism is a refusal to recognize man's responsibility given to him by God and creating legalism instead of grace? Just asking.

...Well put!

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by gb93433
Could it also be that calvinism is a refusal to recognize man's responsibility given to him by God and creating legalism instead of grace? Just asking.

Response by Robert Snow
...Well put!

What you people call Calvinism I call The Doctrines of Grace. Why are they called the Doctrines of Grace. Very simple! The statement of these doctrines recognizes that they magnify the Grace of GOD. They recognize that salvation is entirely the work of the TRIUNE GOD.

See how simple it is. I once was blind but now I see. Hopefully all who claim to follow Jesus Christ will come into the knowledge of the truth: Salvation is entirely by Grace. Salvation is entirely the work of the TRIUNE GOD.

I realize that I am repetitive but repetition is a valuable tool in teaching. You might try reading Hebrews 12:2 which states that Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[saturneptune]

What you people call Calvinism I call The Doctrines of Grace. Why are they called the Doctrines of Grace. Very simple! The statement of these doctrines recognizes that they magnify the Grace of GOD. They recognize that salvation is entirely the work of the TRIUNE GOD.

See how simple it is. I once was blind but now I see. Hopefully all who claim to follow Jesus Christ will come into the knowledge of the truth: Salvation is entirely by Grace. Salvation is entirely the work of the TRIUNE GOD.

I realize that I am repetitive but repetition is a valuable tool in teaching. You might try reading Hebrews 12:2 which states that Jesus Christ is the author and finisher of our faith.

All I can say is thank you for that post.

 

[gb93433]

What you people call Calvinism I call The Doctrines of Grace. Why are they called the Doctrines of Grace. Very simple! The statement of these doctrines recognizes that they magnify the Grace of GOD. They recognize that salvation is entirely the work of the TRIUNE GOD.

I agree. While I agree that is the correct interpretation of the passages. Howver I am not sure Calvin would totally agree with you. The problem seems to be that some who perpetuate such doctrines do not seem to match what those doctrines teach both by how they conduct themselves and by what they say. Their interpretation seems to be too often influenced by others and not by what the actual passages teach in their historical context. I have met some calvinists who I do believe have interpreted those passages wrong but at the same time seem to be gracious. The problem seems to be when some who call themselves calvinists encourage an elitist attitude instead of rejoicing because of God's grace on them.