A question about Calvinisum

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Aren't we commanded to witness

Yes we are. This, however, does not refute Calvinism. As a matter of fact, it supports Calvinist mission work such as William Carey who did it out of obedience to God and his infallible Word and not to inflate his mega church numbers.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

Peter 3:9 it says He(God) is not willing for any to perish but for all to come to repentence.

This is true also Leah2, He loves us all.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

This is true also Leah2, He loves us all.

This is, indeed, also true. He does not, however, save everyone on earth unless you are a universalist.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

No, only those who do as He said, believeth and baptized shall be saved.

 

[Helen]

No Joseph, but salvation is offered to all.

 

[Brother Bob]

Thanks for hanging around Helen. I thought you were gone and I was all alone again.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

No, only those who do as He said, believeth and baptized shall be saved.

This is also true. Only those, however, who have been regenerated will believe. Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

No Joseph, but salvation is offered to all.

Only the elect will recieve it. You must be reborn spiritually, since we are spiritually dead in our sin.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[russell55]

If this was Calvinist doctrine then I would say they chose not to listen because of stubborness and I would agree with you all the way. There will be someone along shortly who will set us straight about Calvinism though

Ummm....that is Calvinist doctrine. People can't believe because they are stubbornly opposed to God. Inability is not funtional inability, as if their "chooser" doesn't work, but moral inability--they want the wrong thing and hate the right things.

 

[Brother Bob]

Baptism is not a requirement for salvation.

Holy Ghost baptism is.

Here we go now about the regeneration requirement where God leaves the majority out.

 

[Helen]

Brother Bob, rather than go there, I would rather make the point about what 'spiritually dead' means. Calvinists continue to think it means spiritual unconsciousness. If that were true, hell would have no meaning.

Jesus defined eternal life as KNOWING God and the Son (John 17). Therefore, if logic has any meaning at all, eternal death is NOT KNOWING God and the Son. This, clearly, is not intellectual acknowledgement, for we do know the Bible clearly says there will be a time when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess. Therefore that kind of knowing that Jesus is talking about is the intimate relationship represented here on earth, believe it or not, by sex -- or "Adam knew his wife and she conceived...." That intimate relationship with God is eternal life.

So death is separation, not unconsciousness. And a person who is spiritually dead is therefore not spiritually unconscious. He or she CAN respond, and has absolutely free choice regarding that response. Not Calvinistic 'free choice' where there is really only one 'choice' because of a person's nature, but true free choice, where both choices are available and possible.

From what I get out of Romans 1, it appears that a person's response to the truth he or she has been shown in life from creation itself may be the starting point for many people. If you are going to suppress the truth that you can see, and continue doing so, then what is left but the lie?

People who want the truth may not know they are seeking God, but if they are truly seeking the truth, He will show them where, and in Whom, it can be found. "Seek and ye shall find" is not an empty promise.

 

[russell55]

No, only those who do as He said, believeth and baptized shall be saved.

Something both calvinists and noncalvinists agree on, depending, I suppose, on what you mean by baptism.

salvation is offered to all.

Again, we have agreement between calvinists and noncalvinists.

Here we go now about the regeneration requirement where God leaves the majority out.

Would you agree that regeneration is required for salvation?

Is everyone regenerated?

Who determines whether someone is regenerated?

 

[Brother Bob]

I agree Helen, and if they are dead to an unconsiciousness state then how will they hear when He says "depart for I never knew you".

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Holy Ghost baptism is.

Interesting. Several questions here:

1. What is Holy Ghost Baptism?

2. What is the function of the Holy Ghost?

3. Why is this baptism a requirement for salvation?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Brother Bob]

Would you agree that regeneration is required for salvation?

Is everyone regenerated?

Who determines whether someone is regenerated?

Yes, but I believe it comes from believeing, repentance and being baptized, then you are raised from a dead state of sin unto a lively hope in Christ.

 

[Brother Bob]

Interesting. Several questions here:

1. What is Holy Ghost Baptism?

2. What is the function of the Holy Ghost?

3. Why is this baptism a requirement for salvation?

Joseph Botwinick
__________________

John 1:33And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


Act 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Act 10:47Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

 

[Jarthur001]

People who want the truth may not know they are seeking God, but if they are truly seeking the truth, He will show them where, and in Whom, it can be found.

And there we have it folks..."Inclusiveism"

Hey just believe in a rock if you want...as long as you truly seek the truth. This is the logical next step to freewillism. After which you must follow Universalism or Inclusiveism.

God is Love therefore God is Love. This is the battle cry that answers all things as people limit God to love and nothing else.

 

[Helen]

And there we have it folks..."Inclusiveism"

Hey just believe in a rock if you want...as long as you truly seek the truth. This is the logical next step to freewillism. After which you must follow Universalism or Inclusiveism.

God is Love therefore God is Love. This is the battle cry that answers all things as people limit God to love and nothing else.

Well, that is one way to totally twist my meaning!

 

[russell55]

What would your answer be to the last question: Who determines whether someone is regenerated?

 

[Brother Bob]

Of course the Lord decides who shall be added to the church daily but you must believe. Only thing I want to emphasize for man is to 'believe". Salvation is of the Lord.