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A question for a Calvinist
- Thread starter stilllearning
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ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
MB said:
Keep reading. :laugh:
When God calls man cannot resist... not in scripture???
Consider Saul of Tarsus, killing Christians, thinking he was doing God a service. On the road to Damascus, God knocked him down and blinded him to get his attention. Saul could no longer resist. Many resist, but God's gifts and calling are without repentance.
Selah,
Bro. James
Consider Saul of Tarsus, killing Christians, thinking he was doing God a service. On the road to Damascus, God knocked him down and blinded him to get his attention. Saul could no longer resist. Many resist, but God's gifts and calling are without repentance.
Selah,
Bro. James
You are reading into the Scripture Saul couldn't have resisted obeying God. God told him to get up and go into the city. Nowhere does it imply this was a forced response, as Saul had those with him guide him into the city. All we are told is Saul obeyed.Bro. James said:
Paul did have a choice because before he was told what to do he said to ChristBro. James said:
"Act 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord?" When he said that He was admitting that it was the Lord. He was agreeing to God's work in the next verse.
Act 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?
This was a voluntary submission.
MB
Just curious, If saving Grace is resistible why is it that some people get saved and some people don't? Are some people just smart enough not to resist and some to stupid to figure out what is going on? Maybe it is because they had a little more Grace given to them so they would make the choice rightly? (in which case we would have election) All these questions, as well as that the fact I have never meet a man who (in his unregenerate state) wasn't DEAD in sin, and therefore unable to make a choice as to resist or not leads me to this question.... what happens if saving Grace is resistible? As far as I can tell everyone goes to Hell if it is!!
FYI, irresistible grace does not imply a "forced response." I sure wish we could do away with all these bad understandings.
hsmom22boys
New Member
No, you can include me in that list. By the way, I noticed you didn't answer.Marcia said:
Resisting God's salvation call: this goes back to the last page. Saul on the road to Damascus: the Lord asked: "Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me? It is hard for you to kick against the pricks." That sure sounds like resistance. The Holy Spirit may have been convicting Saul since the stoning of Stephan, witnessed by Saul.
Everyone is turned a bit differently perhaps. Some run the other way for a lifetime. God still calls them out. The Lord knows them that are His. The Lord uses the good and the bad for His glory. See Rom. 8:28-31.
Selah,
Bro. James
Everyone is turned a bit differently perhaps. Some run the other way for a lifetime. God still calls them out. The Lord knows them that are His. The Lord uses the good and the bad for His glory. See Rom. 8:28-31.
Selah,
Bro. James
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ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
MB said:
Good brother. I came to my conviction of these things by the Scripture. :thumbs:
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
jcjordan said:
Somebody answer it already. I am not sure what answer they are looking for! But I bet it comes with a tulip. :flower: :smilewinkgrin:
Oh plz... you guys are becoming pathetic.ReformedBaptist said:
Ooo.. it is an question you didn't answer. WRONG.. It is a question that is consistantly answer but you just don't like the answer given.
But I will answer it and it has nothing whatsoever to due with a 'tulip'.
However, I have question for you as well. Why does one believer walk in holiness and another does not?
If they have a new nature (and the old one is done away with - removed), and they have the Holy Spirit, God given faith, and renovated heart and one with Christ, they why does one walk in godliness and another does not?
IF you state sin, then I must ask, is sin greater than all that has been given you and if not, then why continue in sin? How could they when they are in fact - dead to sin. "Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? "
Is it in fact - choice?
Why did one choose Christ and another not, it was their God given right to choose either choice. This transpires when God through the Holy Spirit convicts the 'World" of sin and Christ who will 'draw all men unto himself' because God "will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. "
However, God brings men to that place of decision but man is resposible to that truth to believe or not. Faith does not save a man, Christ does however it is through faith that salvation comes.
Look back at this verse and tell me if 'your' view of regeneration works according to scripture:
Here we see a choice being give to Israel - that if they would choose they would live. Now one 'might' be able to contend that they won't choose life unless they are regenerate and therefore God must first change them so as to have them believe.
But look at the next passage which is in direct contradiction such a view:
Here we see that the 'life' referenced includes fellowship/sonship with God so it is speaking of both .. BUT.. look at what the first and second passage actaully state.
(A) Choose that you may (1) Love the Lord thy God, (2) obey His voice, (3) and cleave to God for He is thy life...
In Calvinism regeneration (1-3) must precede choice (A) but in the scripture we see choice preceding regeneration. They could not Love God, obey Him nor cleave to Him until they had chosen.
They were dead because they did not have the Lord who was life as verse 20 establishes (for He is your life). So they were dead or seperated from God and they had to choose to come back that they might have life. Just as the NT exclaims as well -
Yes, I know he was speaking about the physical but since Calvinists use this an illistration about regeneration I figured I would show what Jesus actaully say about the matter. (1) he who believes.. (1a.) though he were dead (2) yet shall he live.
Or this one more plainly states it regarding context:
Now as I said it 'might' be contended that regeneration must happen first before one can choose. So Allan, where is the evidence that they choose life, since they were dead according to God. We find that proof in that all the promises listed in this chapter (taking of the land ,ect...) would be given to them if they choose life. They did and all those promises were given.
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ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Sometimes Allan, we should walk away from the debate. I really have no idea what answer they were seeking, and I was trying to be lighthearted about their answer having a tulip with it. But then you reply and call me pathetic. How does that contribute to the discussion and make for peace?
RB