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A question for a Calvinist
- Thread starter stilllearning
- Start date
FERRON BRIMSTONE
New Member
Revelation 3:20
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
And don't forget-
Mathew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!"
These verses are in reference to the general call that goes out to everyone.
The message of the Gospel is to repent and turn from your sins, something everyone is called to do. But no one will come unless God changes them from the inside first.
Romans 8:29-30
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified"
We can't take one or two verses to prove a point, we must take the whole Bible.
It does not contradict itself, We just tend to read the parts We like.
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.”
And don't forget-
Mathew 23:37
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!"
These verses are in reference to the general call that goes out to everyone.
The message of the Gospel is to repent and turn from your sins, something everyone is called to do. But no one will come unless God changes them from the inside first.
Romans 8:29-30
"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified"
We can't take one or two verses to prove a point, we must take the whole Bible.
It does not contradict itself, We just tend to read the parts We like.
Some can't. Those who see "as it is written" and actually go back and study from where in the OT it was written, it becomes obvious that the "none" in conext refers to the fool (you know, the one who says "there is no God"), the one who has rejected God's truth...the same person mentioned in Romans 1.Reformer said:
ReformedBaptist
Well-Known Member
Amy.G said:
What do the Scriptures teach?
Amy.G said:
here is one example from Exodus 7
1 So the LORD said to Moses: “See, I have made you as God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your brother shall be your prophet. 2 You shall speak all that I command you. And Aaron your brother shall tell Pharaoh to send the children of Israel out of his land. 3 And I WILL HARDEN PHAROH'S HEART, and multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. 4 But Pharaoh will not heed you, so that I may lay My hand on Egypt and bring My armies and My people, the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments. 5 And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I stretch out My hand on Egypt and bring out the children of Israel from among them.”
No, that is your concoction of what I said. It might be better if you actually stick to what another actaully says rather than re-interpreting it.jcjordan said:
God, even in Calvinistic thought, does not force men to be saved but calls/asks men (the whosoever) to believe. Yes, Jesus is asking for you and all 'whosoevers' to believe but no one said anything about begging. If you don't think so I would encourage you to re-read that passage. "I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears my voice and opens the door I will come in..".
Again, your ignorance of anothers view stands out once again. I would encourage you to actaully know alittle about what others actaully believe before you make yourself look this silly. :thumbs:
More straw men brought forth through regurgitation. But then again you have never really understood (in conveying them on the BB at least) the beliefs of others other than your own.
All men have the capcity to answer God's call but not all will.
Can God's call be denied? Yes it can as seen in Prov 1:
Which is seen also in Paul's reference to in from Rom 10:21:
And Jesus speaking of Isreal:
The difference has nothing to do with being smarter or dumber or who is the idiot or not. It is simply who will believe what God has revealed to them and yes, it is as simple as that. It isn't about who has the greatest intellect but who will believe in spite of their intellect.
That has been the subject of other threads and I know there is some disagreement, but I think that Pharoah's heart was already hardened against God and God hardened it futher. God does not harden the hearts of those who believe in Him. Pharoah sealed his own fate, so to speak.Reformer said:
webdog said:
Until I read this post I thought it was impossible to misunderstand this text
“ There is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE;
11 There is NONE who understands;
There is NONE who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is NONE who does good, NO, NOT ONE.”
Guess I was wrong "None, Not One"
How complicated is that
I will also add I can see this is an endless argument so this will be my last post on this thread, There is no sense arguing with a fence post
No, it is just that some people will listen to the context the passage was written in.Reformer said:
Rom 3:11 is in reference to man of and by himself will not seek after God. That is why God must come to man first. God initates man must choose to believe God or not. No man will come to God first and that is all the passage is stating.
In like manner some also like to go beyond the intent of a passage to bend it to their theological opinion.
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stilllearning
Active Member
Hi Pastor Larry
You asked.......
“Is the "i.e." part your comments or his?”
This was my understanding, of what he said.
You asked.......
“Is the "i.e." part your comments or his?”
This was my understanding, of what he said.
And this is the crux of the matter, God giving those over who want to believe the lie, like those mentioned in Romans 1Amy.G said:
Rom 1:20 From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.
Rom 1:21 For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.
Rom 1:22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools
Rom 1:23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man, birds, four-footed animals, and reptiles.
Rom 1:24 Therefore God delivered them over in the cravings of their hearts to sexual impurity, so that their bodies were degraded among themselves.
Rom 1:25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served something created instead of the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 This is why God delivered them over to degrading passions. For even their females exchanged natural sexual intercourse for what is unnatural.
Yes Amy, though God did intend to harden Pharohs heart so that He could multiply His signs and wonders, He did so after Pharohs initial rejection (which God already knew was to come) God had to harden Pharohs heart because the signs He was sending would make any man relent after the first few but God knew Pharohs rejection was an absolute one and used his pride to show Himself to be the only One True God.Amy.G said:
stilllearning
Active Member
Hi FERRON BRIMSTONE
You listed.......
Then you said.....
The way I see it, these all agree with one another;
(In light of God’s foreknowledge.)
Everyone gets a chance at salvation, but God foreknew those who were going to accept His free gift, and chose to save them.
You listed.......
And
And
--------------------------------------------------
Then you said.....
The way I see it, these all agree with one another;
(In light of God’s foreknowledge.)
Everyone gets a chance at salvation, but God foreknew those who were going to accept His free gift, and chose to save them.
You bet'cha! He saves all whom the Father has chosenTCGreek said:
God calls to Himself all those of faith, and it is those same whom He has chosen unto Himself before the foundation of the world.
That same call that fulfills it's purpose in bringing His chosen to salvation also justly condemns all men who will not believe.
Solo Dia Gloria!!
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