A Question for Brother Bill

Brother Bill,

I am sure we all can't wait to hear your answer to this old, old question as you appear to consider yourself to be a man of great, irrefutable intelligence: How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?



I don't think your attempt to isolate verses of Scripture out of their context to fit into your theology is succeeding at all. You appear to be one who is currently unconvincable on the subject of soteriology. But I do believe that one day you will know better.

May God bless you.

 

Ken, God loves you and so do I. I pray God will bless you as you continue to learn His truth. I'm sorry you see my attempt to seek truth in that light. One day we will all know a lot better. Amen.

Your brother in Christ,
Bill

 

One week has gone by and Brother Bill refuses to answer this question.

I think his silence on these questions is all we need to hear from Brother Bill. </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know what "kind" of Baptist you are either. Nor do I know that information about any of you. Why?

It is not important to this debate. It only provides a means by which you can label me and dismiss me as being apart of a group that you don't agree with.

Why don't any of you Calvinists just answer the arguments I present in my post, "CALVINISM'S BLIND SPOT?" None of you address Romans 11 or my interpretation of it. None of you answer even one of the questions I present (exception of Dallas who really didn't answer the question but just restated his position).

Who are the ones on this board avoiding the debate? I've answered every charge with biblical support. You may not agree with my answers but at least I provide a defense for my beliefs, thus far you Calvinists only argument to me is "thats your assumption."

We've already argreed that we all have assumptions, support yours and try to disprove mine, if you think you can!

Bill

 

Does the restatement of my position not constitute answering the question. What was the question again?

Oh.. only the Apostles are elected. I remember now. This is evidently true because Paul speaks of we and us, (all in the present of believers) who were being excluded because Paul was only speaking of 'us' and 'we' being the apostles. This makes sense and is in line with Yelsew who disregards Paul because he was a bigot, and since Paul believed in the elect of God, perhaps he resorted to scare tactics as John Calvin would later (sadly including murder), then this would fall in line with the fears of Romanbear.

Bro. Bill,

Myself and others have continually provided with scriptural reasonings why we do not accept your beliefs, yet you refuse to recognize our rebuttals as valid refutation. But then when you are ignored or brushed off, you cry I'm labelled and dismissed.

I do not find your belief consistent with scripture. If that bothers you I am sorry. You don't agree with my position that all who are and will ever be saved are elected of God, this doesn't bother me.

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Hi bro.Bill;
A quote from you;
-----------------------------------------------------
Why don't any of you Calvinists just answer the arguments I present in my post, "CALVINISM'S BLIND SPOT?" None of you address Romans 11 or my interpretation of it. None of you answer even one of the questions I present (exception of Dallas who really didn't answer the question but just restated his position).
-----------------------------------------------------
The real reason they didn't answer your questions is because they are wrong and can't admit it. They have a doctrine that was handed down by murderous dictators like Calvin who dictated the beliefs of the people of Geneva in the 1500's and murdered all who would oppose him. Check out Dave hunt's book "What Love is This" and you'll see why a few months ago I couldn't get one of them to read it before he made comments on it...They all judged Dave Hunt as some kind of heretic when it is there mentor John Calvin who has serious reputation problems.There is no bigger thief than a murderer because he takes something he can't return. He also can't receive forgiveness from the ones he kills.This also applies to Augustine he did the same thing in fact He altered scripture in the Latin vulgate to make it seem what he said was right putting the Catholic Church in the seat of Caesar's and the Church dictator of Rome.
Romanbear

 

{Double Post}

 

I find it rather humerous that the Arminians never mentioned the doctrine being set forth by Brother Bill, and now it is as if they suddenly saw the light ad gree with it.

A doctrine cannot be judged because some who have held it were not upright in the things they did. If the truth were known, many prominent theologians hav skeletons in their closets. While it is sometimes helpful to consult the writings of godly men in past ages, the word of God is the final authority.

 

Hi P.B.
That's like saying the thief who just stole all your money won't do it to me. Calvin did this after he wrote the insititutes of Christianity. After he was a Christian. Which I have to admit that I don't believe he was.To be a Christian is to be christ like where is this mans fruit? he has none.No where in the mans life does he ever demonstrate any fruits.Just the fruits of evil.You can't get good from bad...
Romanbear

 

I never claimed John Calvin was saved. His fruits certainly were not good, but that is not my area to judge the eternal destiny of men. You are right; You cannot get good from bad. That is why nothing good can come from the heart of an unregenerate man.

 

Calvinists,

I do not discredit your beliefs because of John Calvin's faults. Killing heretics was a common thing back then much like owning slaves. Both those with "correct doctrine" and those with "false doctrine" did these things that today we see as horrible.

A doctrine cannot be judged merely by the actions of those who hold it. The scripture must be our standard.

The reason I reject Calvinism is clearly displayed in Dallas' response to me in this post and in the other posts. They can't seem to deal with the questions presented to them. Why? Because their system doesn't allow for human responsiblity except to say "it's a paradox.

I asked why would Paul hope that envy would cause some of the Israelites to be saved if in fact man's will is not involved in salvation. Envy is a great motivator of man's will, is it not. Look at the way people in our society strive to get material wealth just because their neighbor has it. Why would God use envy to motivate the Israelites to salvation if the will is not involved? If God "effectually calls" all the elect. Why would Paul hope that he might save some through the motivation of "envy"? That question has not been addressed.

Bill

 

Amen, Primitive Baptist.

To say the truth, what man, born of man, does not have skeletons in his closet.

Romanbear does make a point in saying you can't bring something good out of something bad, even Calvin would agree with that.

It is God that calls to salvation and God that enables man to believe.

God Bless All

Bro. Dallas

 

Bro. Bill,

God saves by His Grace, not by envy, nor any thing else.

Envy is a product of the fall of man;

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Hardsheller, I understand. But I have my reasons for not telling you of my background that you would understand if you knew what my reasons were. There is a promise involved which I cannot break. Don't take this as some big mystery or anything, but just that I have my reasons for not disclosing my personal information in this forum. Maybe things will change later and I will, but right now I won't. Thanks for your understanding.
Bill

 

Yes, we are saved by Grace. We all agree with that.

But, the scripture clearly states that the "arousal of envy" could lead to "salvation." We know that envy is not what saves a man, Grace purchased by the blood of Christ does that, but what leads a man to faith? Obviously, envy can lead a man to belief otherwise, why would Paul say this?

Bill

 

Bro. Bill,

In all fairness to you, I will study this scripture further. I do admit this scripture has caught my attention as being odd before, but I don't ever remember thinking it led to believing that envy could lead to salvation.

But as I said, I will study this and present to you what I believe to be taught here. As always this does not mean you have to accept it, o.k.

(I don't have a recent picture of myself had to submit one to the teacher education dept. for identification purposes; the above are as close as I can get

God Bless.
Bro. Dallas

 

Dallas, I respect that. I often come across texts that I feel I should study further before commenting on. I have no problem with that. I wish we all had as much intergrity and honesty to admit when we needed to "study further." I sincerely look forward to hearing what you discover.

God Bless,
Bill