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Featured A Rational Look at Baptism in the Scriptures of Truth

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by JD731, Sep 21, 2021.

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  1. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I do not think we disagree yet would like your thoughts.

    Statements:
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God; this one was in the beginning with God;
    And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. John 1:1,2,14 YLT ----- And relative to that:
    For, let this mind be in you that is also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal to God, but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, Phil 2:6,7 YLT
    V 8 and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, ---And, that is:
    and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death. Heb 2:9 YLT ----- With the following being said relative to that, death and rising out of said death:
    Who (the above Jesus) in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Heb 5:7 YLT --- Also:
    knowing that Christ, having been raised up out of the dead, doth no more die, death over him hath no more lordship; Rom 6:9 YLT ---And--- Acts 13:34 YLT 'And that He did raise him up out of the dead, no more to return to corruption, he hath said thus -- I will give to you the faithful kindnesses of David;

    Those are statements. I am going to assume that this being dead and subject to corruption lasted for a minimum of three days and or for three days and three nights.

    Question? Where was the Holy Spirit relative to the dead corruptible Jesus for three days and three nights?

    Consider also.
    Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead -- Gal 1:1 YLT
    and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. Rom 8:11 YLT
    who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. 1 Peter 3:21 YLT
    'This Jesus did God raise up, (out of the dead) of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; Acts 2:32.33 YLT

    and having cried with a loud voice, Jesus said, 'Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit. Luke 23:46 YLT

    (not by works that are in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour, Titus 3:5,6 YLT


    'This Jesus did God raise up, (out of the dead) of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; Acts 2:32.33 YLT
    (not by works that are in righteousness that we did but according to His kindness,) He did save us, through a bathing of regeneration, and a renewing of the Holy Spirit, which He poured upon us richly, through Jesus Christ our Saviour, Titus 3:5,6 YLT


    Let us have our eyes opened. Those verses say the very same thing. Jesus is the heir of God. If Jesus has not inherited, neither then shall we inherit. When did the heir, inherit and when will the joint heirs, inherit?
     
    #41 percho, Oct 8, 2021
  2. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Two things. First, the texts are otherwise silent on that question. But His role is nevertheless mentioned, Hebrews 9:14, ". . . Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, . . .". And Roman 8:11,". . . the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead . . . ."
     
    #42 37818, Oct 8, 2021
  3. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    It is my understanding at His resurrection, and we at our resurrection.
    The whole of creation after the Judgment.
     
    #43 37818, Oct 8, 2021
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  4. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    More important information about baptism in the first century.

    1) From Acts 2, which is the beginning of the formation of the church of Jesus Christ until Acts 10, the only commissioned preachers were the apostles and prophets.
    2) These preachers only preached to Israel during the first few years post resurrection
    3) These preachers were commissioned and equipped with apostolic powers in Mark 16.
    4) The 12 apostles and the 70 prophets of Israel and the apostle Paul were the only members of the church of Jesus Christ who has ever possessed these miraculous sign gifts
    5) Anyone since the apostolic era claiming to possess the ability to exercise these gifts are frauds.
    6) These gifts are 5 in number - cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
    7) The Jews require a sign 1 Cor 1:22
    8) God has always given them signs to confirm his words
    9) The first miracle performed by a man in scripture was Moses in the context of the events surrounding the birth of the nation of Israel
    10) The last recorded miracles in scripture is in Acts 28 where Paul handled a deadly snake without harm and healed sick people.
    11) Shortly after this Paul announced the prophecy of Isaiah against Israel and his ministry then majored on gentiles (read Acts 28 here)
    12) All recorded miracles in the scriptures are in the context of the nation Israel and outside this nation there are no real miracles.
    13) The scriptures have never recorded a miracle by a gentile, the lone exception of a gentile exercising a sign gift was Cornelius and his house when the first gentile was saved and the door of faith was opened to us. The sign was for the benefit of the Jews who were there that day.
    14) The scriptures have never recorded a miracle by a woman and no woman has ever worked a legitimate miracle.
    15) Miracle working is a sign of an apostle according to 2 Cor 12:12
    16) The scriptures states plainly who works miracles in the NT.

    Acts 2:43
    And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
    Acts 5:12
    And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (the people is always Israel)
    2 Corinthians 12:12
    Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

    17) The world has seen Jewish men working signs and miracles between Moses in about 1500 BC to Paul and the apostles in AD 62.

    The Lord Jesus clearly instructed his apostles, The Twelve, as they are referred to in the gospels, to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. Jesus said to them that, he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved and he that believeth not shall be damned. There is no reason for anyone not to believe he meant exactly what he said and the proof of that is to track their activities through the next few years to see what they did. We see that they did exactly what he told them to do. The first message of the new age was given by Peter in Jerusalem to the Jews and he said to them who heard the gospel that he preached these words, which clearly included being baptized in water. This surely is proof that he understood exactly what Jesus meant when he gave them these instructions in Mark 16:15-16.

    Acts 2:37 Now when they heard [this], they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men [and] brethren, what shall we do?
    38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

    I have already proven that receiving the Holy Ghost is salvation. Going through the apostolic era as recorded in the Acts will show the Jewish apostles did not deviate from these instructions that Jesus gave them when they pertained to Jews. I will prove some things about miracles and signs in my next post and how they were were ministries of apostles and prophets of Israel only.
     
    #44 JD731, Oct 8, 2021
  5. JD731

    JD731 Well-Known Member

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    This post is about becoming familiar with the words of the scriptures, and believing them without question, whether one understands them or whether he doesn't. I prepared the following for Sunday School as I was teaching through Acts several years ago.


    A Look at the Offices of the Early Chapters of Acts:

    • The Apostles – A fixed number of twelve as they relate to Israel – Matthew 19:28; Luke 6:13; Matthew 19:28; Mark 3:14; Revelation 21:14
    • A fixed number of one as they relate to the gentiles – RO 11:13; 1 TIM 2:7; 2 Tim 1:11; GAL 2:7-8
    • A fixed number of one as they relate to the world – HEB 3:1; JN 3:16-18
    • The Prophets – Unknown, but preponderance of evidence points to the 70 disciples who were commissioned to preach and perform miracles in Luke 10: 1-9

    The Credentials of an Apostle in "The Twelve"

    1. He must have been a disciple of Jesus throughout the entire course of his earthly ministry from Jesus’ baptism by John until his ascension. Acts 1:21-22
    2. He must have been a witness of Jesus resurrection Acts 1:22
    3. He must have been personally chosen by Jesus to be an Apostle; Acts 1:24 (See also Luke 6:13 & Acts 1:2 & Matt 10:1-4)
    ​

    The Confirming Proof of an Apostle:

    • Signs, Wonders, and Mighty Deeds – 2 Corinthians 12:12 (Note: If these are peculiar to the office of Apostle to validate the office, how would it make sense if men who were not Apostles were able to perform these feats? Men like these modern imposters such as the Charismatic crowd has produced who could not possibly meet even one of the qualifications of an apostle, let alone all three!)
    ​


    Illustrations:

    • Romans 15:18-19
    • Acts 2:43
    • Acts 4:33
    • Acts 5:12-16 (Note: This particular passage was a direct answer to the prayer these men prayed in Acts 4:29-31).
    ​

    Prophet as an office of the NT

    • Ephesians 4:11
    • Ephesians 2:20 – It is a foundational office, which means it is not perpetual and is occupied with a fixed number, as the Apostles.
    • 1 Corinthians 12:28-29 - They are second in rank to the Apostles.
    • Ephesians 3:5 - They, along with the Apostles, had the mystery of the church revealed unto them.
    • Ephesians 4:11 - The Prophets are gifts of Christ to some of the early churches.
    • 1 Corinthians 14:29 & Acts 13:1- Some of the churches had more than one Prophet ministering among them.
    • 1 Corinthians 1:30 – It seems God used them in the churches to reveal truth before the NT Scriptures were complete.
    • 1 Corinthians 14:29 – No more than two or three were to speak and that by order.
    • Compare a careful reading of 1 Corinthians 12: 4-11 with Hebrews 2:3-4. Note in 1 Corinthians 12:28 that God mentions first the officers in the church, then the manifestations of the Spirit, i.e. miracles, healing, helps, etc. These manifestations of the Spirit seemed to be as temporary as the offices through which they were administered! It is not without significance that there is no record of legitimate miracles worked through men anywhere in church history after the apostolic age, which ended in AD 94 with the death of John, the last Apostle to die.


    All the signs performed by the Apostles in Acts:

    • Acts 2:4;
    • There are a total of 13 passages chronicling the miracle working of the Apostles in the Acts. That would be 6 by the apostles to the Jews and 7 by Paul to the gentiles. It seems to me that the miracles for the benefit of the gentiles are complete, hence the number 7, while there will be miracles in the future tribulation era for the benefit of the Jews! Hence the number six which is mans number and not complete. That is my musing!

      Acts 3:1-11;
    • Acts 5:1-11;
    • Acts 5:12-16;
    • Acts 9:32-35;
    • Acts 9:36-42;
    • Acts 13:6-12;
    • Acts 14:8-10;
    • Acts 16:16-18;
    • Acts 19:11-12;
    • Acts 20:7-12
    • Acts 28:1-6;
    • Acts 28:7-9

    All miracles performed by Jews other than Apostles in Acts:

    • Acts 6:8;
    • Acts 8:6;
    • Acts 9:17-18;

    All the miracles performed by God in Acts:


    • There are 15 instances of miracles performed by God. Fifteen is the number in the Bible for rest. Is this a way for God to demonstrate that he is resting from his miracles after the close of the Apostolic time?
    • Since there are no more miracles after the incidents recorded in the book of Acts, can we make this assumption? Miracles are said to be “works” in many places in the Bible. (John 5:36 & Matt 13:54 are examples)

      In the beginning of Acts, the work of redemption is finished. (Jesus on the cross, “it is finished”). At the end of the apostolic era, the Bible is finished. The miracles were for the purpose of confirming the spoken Word. The written Word is confirmed by the testimony of heaven. 1 John 5:6-13
    • Acts 2:1-3
    • Acts 5:17-20;
    • Acts 7:55-56;
    • Acts 8:26;
    • Acts 8:39-40;
    • Acts 9:3-9;
    • Acts 9:10-12;
    • Acts 10:1-6;
    • Acts 10:9-20;
    • Acts 10:44-46;
    • Acts 12:1-11;
    • Acts 12:20-23;
    • Acts 16:25-26;
    • Acts 18: 8-11;
    • Acts 27:21-44

    All the miracles performed by gentiles in the Acts;

    • Acts 10:46 - This is the only place in the Bible of a gentile exercising a legitimate sign gift.


    All the miracles performed by gentiles and women in the remainder of the Bible:

    • None
     
    #45 JD731, Oct 8, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2021
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