A real Hell???

[InTheLight]

You do not vote for Trump and instead do something foolish like write in a candidate who will not win, in truth your vote will go to Hillary. Trump does not have the character and neither does Hillary, so you vote for the platform and the policies.

You know nothing about my situation. Here it is again:

I live in Minnesota. Hillary is a shoo-in for winning Minnesota. My vote is not going for Hillary. Even if I lived in a swing state, say North Carolina, and I voted 3rd party, my vote would not go for Hillary, it would go for whomever I voted for.

 

[Baptist Believer]

And where does that "openness" end?

For example, are you open to the possibility that the resurrection may not be literal?
How about the miracles--literal or symbolic?

This kind of thinking can get dicey in a hurry.

That's the slippery slope fallacy, that assumes that if you don't draw the line where another draws it, you will NEVER draw a line.

As I understand it, the argument goes that the story that Jesus told about the rich man and Lazarus was on older story that Jesus was appropriating and that Jesus was not attempting to tell us anything about the afterlife, but about the proper stewardship of possessions when there are people in need.

Imagine someone using the parable of the sower and claiming that sowing seed indiscriminately on mostly poor soil is the only biblical method of farming.

Beyond all of that, I think it should be noted that even if you take the story of the rich man and Lazarus as telling about the states of the righteous and the just, that it is not the final state of either. It is a transitional state. The final state of the unrepentant is the lake of fire. The final state of those in the kingdom of God is a new heaven and new earth.

 

[evangelist6589]

And where does that "openness" end?

For example, are you open to the possibility that the resurrection may not be literal?
How about the miracles--literal or symbolic?

This kind of thinking can get dicey in a hurry.

No I take the Bible literally in those areas.

 

[kyredneck]

Then why is fire used over and over and over again in scripture?

Fire is used heavily in the scriptures as symbolic of God's wrath.

 

[Don]

You do not vote for Trump and instead do something foolish like write in a candidate who will not win, in truth your vote will go to Hillary. Trump does not have the character and neither does Hillary, so you vote for the platform and the policies.

You critiqued his signature line? What debate tactic is that? How does it apply to the thread topic?

 

[Yeshua1]

Then why is fire used over and over and over again in scripture?

Again, it can be used to represent the idea that hell is a litral plce, and that it is really bad place to go forever...

Just stating that truth, as we honestly don't know if it is people being roasted, as Jesus Himself also called it outer darkness, devoid of light and heat!

 

[Yeshua1]

And where does that "openness" end?

For example, are you open to the possibility that the resurrection may not be literal?
How about the miracles--literal or symbolic?

This kind of thinking can get dicey in a hurry.

Metaphor just just takes the language and images to refer to actual syate and condition, to show really bad, regardless if people are on fire or not....

Miracles and the resurrection are always described in literal fashion, as events that happened exactly as recorded down to us...

 

[evangelist6589]

Fire is used heavily in the scriptures as symbolic of God's wrath.

Symbolic. The key word.

 

[evangelist6589]

Again, it can be used to represent the idea that hell is a litral plce, and that it is really bad place to go forever...

Just stating that truth, as we honestly don't know if it is people being roasted, as Jesus Himself also called it outer darkness, devoid of light and heat!

Exactly. It may be symbolic.

 

[Yeshua1]

Exactly. It may be symbolic.

Bot still represents a literal/real place. just the actual condition pf those in there not sure what that is like, but do know eternally deperate from God....

 

[evangelist6589]

Bot still represents a literal/real place. just the actual condition pf those in there not sure what that is like, but do know eternally deperate from God....

This is what I say. The fire may be symbolic but Hell is real.

 

[Salty]

Again, it can be used to represent the idea that hell is a litral plce, and that it is really bad place to go forever...

Just stating that truth, as we honestly don't know if it is people being roasted, as Jesus Himself also called it outer darkness, devoid of light and heat!

Remember the burning bush - and Moses - there was fire - but was not consumed.

 

[Jerome]

Charles Spurgeon, "The Resurrection of the Dead"

"There is a real fire in hell, as truly as you have now a real body—a fire exactly like that which we have on earth in everything except this: it will not consume, though it will torture you!...So your body will be prepared by God in such a way that it will burn forever without being consumed; it will lie, not as you consider, in metaphorical fire, but in actual flames."

 

[TCassidy]

Will the "real" body be in the grave or in hell? If it is only the spirit body that is in hell, and the "real" body is still in the grave, then is it not possible it is spirit fire and not "real" fire in hell? Is the flame in hell caused by the super-heating of hydro-carbons such as "real" fire is? If so, what is the source of those hydro-carbons?

 

[Aaron]

The flames are as real as the gold in the New Jerusalem.

 

[evangelist6589]

The flames are as real as the gold in the New Jerusalem.

That may be. I am just open to the metaphorical view. Hell is a real place but the fire may be symbolic.

 

[Yohanon]

In another thread - Evan stated : "Today in the class we went over the churches doctrine and my only difference is on Hell. I am open to the metaphorical view. Besides that I agree with them in every other area."

Either Hell is real or it is metaphorical.
It can not be both!

Not believing in a literal Hell is one of basic beliefs.

Open for discussion

I am inclined more toward a literal interpretation of The Fathers word. He says what he means and means what he says

 

[HankD]

Sometimes there is a real debate and often confusion between "real", "literal" and "symbolic".
Ask any Catholic who is confused about communion, we or they.

John 5
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.


HankD

 

[Yeshua1]

Will the "real" body be in the grave or in hell? If it is only the spirit body that is in hell, and the "real" body is still in the grave, then is it not possible it is spirit fire and not "real" fire in hell? Is the flame in hell caused by the super-heating of hydro-carbons such as "real" fire is? If so, what is the source of those hydro-carbons?

Think that Jesus was using very descriptive language to point out to us just how bad a state/condition people will be there, who deny Jesus...

 

[Yeshua1]

Charles Spurgeon, "The Resurrection of the Dead"

"There is a real fire in hell, as truly as you have now a real body—a fire exactly like that which we have on earth in everything except this: it will not consume, though it will torture you!...So your body will be prepared by God in such a way that it will burn forever without being consumed; it will lie, not as you consider, in metaphorical fire, but in actual flames."

Even when that person has an eternal body?