A restatement of a question

[Rufus_1611]

Then why did you bring it up?

Because it was relevant to the OP...

If there is a clear teaching in the Bible. One that is obvious. If there are Christians that do not believe in this doctrine, why do they not?

I thoght there were at least three possible reason why.

...it is one of the obvious reasons why folks don't agree on clear teachings.

 

[Dale-c]

...it is one of the obvious reasons why folks don't agree on clear teachings.

It is a decent point, though I don't see how this would make a big difference on major teachings in a proper translation.
It could perhaps make a difference to more obscure doctrines in a good translation and major differences in a poor translation.

 

[Dale-c]

I think these are three excellent points as to why people do not accept clear teachings.

I'm going to also have to go with James when he said (4.) that they haven't been properly taught - meaning there are false teachers.

This is a good point. I think this come as sub points to both 2 and 3. Even with false teachers, you have either ignorant techers and thus ignorant people or you have dishonest teachers and you have ignorant people or even dishonest people.

But it is a good point to add.

I have a couple of others.

5. They are too fixated on traditions of men and either get that confused with scripture or try to intermingle that in with scripture.

6. They are not mature in the faith.

Very good point and I will add that it is very hard to over come that which we have grown up with. Only by God's grace will we overcome this.

Let me close by asking you a question.

What happens when person "A" interprets a scripture passage one way and person "B" interprets it another. Each is convinced in his own mind that he is the only one who is correct.

Both are truly saved and both are equally mature, studied, and have no dishonest intentions.

So who is correct?

This is a hypothetical question, I know but: I really don't think it is possible.
There is only one truth in God's word.
One of them will be wrong and the one that is wrong will either not have studied as much as the other or will be hindered by tradition or bad teaching etc.
That doesn't mean the guy is better who is right on the issue.
Very likely, the guy who is wrong may be right on another issue where the first guy is wrong.

none of us have a perfect understanding of the Bible.

 

[Dale-c]

I have wondered the same thing though, when the following is so obvious that man must believe before he can be saved.

The other thread was for that actual topic, this thread is only in general.
Please keep the specifics to the other thread.
Thanks.
DC

 

[rsr]

Please refrain from personal attacks and keep to the topic.

Which is not about translations; such discussions belong in another forum.

 

[npetreley]

I think the translations issue would fall into this category:

1. They are just unstudied, new Christians etc.
Most of us fall into this category because none of us has studied enough to fully understand the Bible so I am sure we are all guilty of this in some way.

Most of the errors I've seen pop up due to translation issues are from people who are relying on one or two verses from a single translation. They don't take into account the Greek/Hebrew or other translations, which would shed light on their error. I've gotten tripped up by this, myself.

Example: This is not a major doctrine or anything, but I've seen people quote "Avoid all appearance of evil" (KJV, I think) as meaning that we should avoid doing anything that might be misinterpreted by others as being evil. It sure sounds like that's what it means, doesn't it? But it doesn't mean that. It's simply a translation/language issue. It means something more like: "Avoid evil, wherever and however it appears". If the person is studied enough, he'll have looked at the Greek or another translation and found out the meaning was different in the Greek and/or other translations.

 

[Scarlett O.]

This is a hypothetical question, I know but: I really don't think it is possible.

You are right. It isn't possible for there to be two opposing interpretations of the same scripture passage. That was what I was trying to get at. When two people are saved and mature in the faith are firmly rooted and will not bend, what is there to do?

There is a lot of that very thing here on the BB.

I see (and I am guilty myself) strong people who know the bible locking horns and neither willing to concede that other person just might have something of enlightment to say.

There is only one truth in God's word.
One of them will be wrong and the one that is wrong will either not have studied as much as the other or will be hindered by tradition or bad teaching etc.
That doesn't mean the guy is better who is right on the issue.
Very likely, the guy who is wrong may be right on another issue where the first guy is wrong.

If they would only see that.

none of us have a perfect understanding of the Bible.

And although we should strive for it, we should acknowledge that we never will get there.

 

[Dale-c]

And although we should strive for it, we should acknowledge that we never will get there.

Very true. For me it depends on the doctrine though how much it causes lack of fellowship. I have a good friend who is the youth pastor of a Christian Church.
We have lots of differences and we do discuss them but we have always kept civil towards each other.

Now when it comes to be Presbyterian friends, they are so well studied it makes me nervous to argue with them

 

[Dale-c]

If they would only see that.

This is what I was talking about, it is true to a point.
fundamentals such as grace and works are a major thing though.
Not to be taken lightly.

 

[Dr. Bob]

7. They mislead themselves because they THINK they know what a word/verse means and are woefully in error. What a word might mean in 2007 can be light-years from its intended use 100-500 years ago. Language evolves at a rapid pace.

And those might be light-years away from what the writers of Holy Writ meant.

8. Faulty hermeneutic as they suck a phrase or verse ripped from context into a "pre-text" for some position they hold dear.

 

[Apreacher4Him]

Reasons for conflicting positions...

9. Blinded by sin... whether "pet" sins... known, but dismissed as acceptable, or as my brother preached on in our wednesday evening service tonight - unrecognized sin that sometimes requires God bring trials and testings for us to see... one is more dangerous... presumptuous sins are always more dangerous... but so is presuming that oneself has "arrived" and has no more "purification" or "sanctification" in his life to weed out more sin, impurity, and carnality is also wicked... We should always be asking, "Lord, what else would thou prune?"

Some will not even be saved because of Sin. "lest their deeds should be reproved"

Some need only a pure heart and a willing mind... As Christ said "If any man will do my will He shall know of the doctrine whether it be of God or I speak of myself"..

10. A corralary of "faulty hermeneutic" although it is also a corallary of #9 above.
which is interpreting your scripture by your life instead of your life by the scripture... So many are guilty of this on views such as:
"divorce" "various known abominations by men and women" "women preachers" "music" "bad friends" "working on Sundays" "dating standards" "standards for a mate" "Christian Education" "Paying for a Christian Education" "A daily time of devotions" "Regular Church attendance" "Tithes and Offerings"
and other Christian practices, behaviors, principles, and standards t
hat are well fine and good thank you very much, until they get tempted with a girl/woman, busy in a job, tired in the morning, charmed by a boy/man, have "money on the line," busy with life's cares, feel peer pressure, want to be popular, budget gets tight, they are now in the minority, they know someone who is...

Then it all goes out the window... What ever happened to "AND DANIEL PURPOSED IN HIS HEART".... whatever happen to what thou hast said faithful also remain! That is what The Lord says in his word specifically about what we give: As every Man "PURPOSETH IN HIS HEART" so let him give!... The right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing... has nothing to do with not giving as you have purposed because money is tight...

But that is just an example... Let us purpose in our hearts to remain faithful... I commend us all to that help which will strengthen our lives...

Along with the realization that we ought always be letting God prune us...
We have not arrived....

11. Last, but not least (of the ones I shall offer) a LACK OF PRAYER, God is our illuminator and teacher...
and He says is "IF ANY MAN HAVE EARS TO HEAR LET HIM HEAR" .. If we are willing to LISTEN he is willing to TEACH...
MAY we pray for God's illumination and not try to be wise in our own eyes... God aiding us, and our hearts being pure, and broken (willing to be corrected and purified) before Him ... he will give to all men wisdom... which of course requires first knowledge, before knowledge can be applied... It is my belief that God gives most knowledge to the man who would be wise... God shares His greatest revelation of true Scriptural knowledge and understanding to those who would live thereby... Of course, with knowledge comes the temptation to be satisfied with Just knowledge, and to fall short. and to let the things which we have learned to slip.... but God would not have us merely "puffed up" but would have us wise servants obeying what is merely what we are expected to do... Obey God...

God bless,

In Sincerity and Truth,

- Michael

 

[npetreley]

8. Faulty hermeneutic as they suck a phrase or verse ripped from context into a "pre-text" for some position they hold dear.

I think we should combine this with dishonest. It's intellectually dishonest, even if the person can't admit it.

 

[Apreacher4Him]

Pray on, Study on, preach on - by God's grace

MAY we pray for God's illumination and not try to be wise in our own eyes...

 

[skypair]

If there is a clear teaching in the Bible. One that is obvious. If there are Christians that do not believe in this doctrine, why do they not?

New Christian? English translations? pastor's/teacher's influence, etc.? Naw.

The biggest reason for divisions is rejection/grieving/quenching of the Spirit even among believers. I've often heard it said that, among all the translations of the Bible, there is still enough for a child to be able to understand the gospel.

And once one has the Spirit -- the 'mind of Christ' -- in him/her, many issues are cleared up because of trust in the word.

But many BB fail to realize that all the apostles, Luke, James, etc. presented the "mind of Christ" in their own words which today we call "the scriptures." We live in the days -- not of the "letter" "jot and tittle" given by God -- but of the SPIRIT of the word. The Bible was written for all people and all languages and so it is very simple so far as wording. It's when we change the meaning of words and contexts that we miss the truth.

Perhaps one of the worst "crimes" against scripture and the Spirit came when Origen, an 18 year old bishop in the Eastern church, began to allegorize scripture! Do you realize that the church didn't get over this "phase" until the 1700's?? Most of your major Christian denoms before that were blinded until the literal interpretation of scripture took hold -- what I like to refer to as the "Philadelphia phase" of the church.

Premillenialism was lost -- the church replaced Israel -- OT rituals were "spiritualized" into the NT (baptism in the church was used like circumcision was by the Jews) -- Christ's kingdom was NOW, not future.

Origen also sought to reconcile Greek philosophy with Christianity resulting in all manner of error coming to us through Augustine, another Eastern church leader.

So yeah, teachers are a huge influence but the born again believer armed with the Word of God/mind of Christ is fully equipped to resist and to see through all the "blog" of error.

skypair