A Sample of The Strange Teachings of Rick Warren

nunatak,

Ha ha! Oh, I dont think so. :laugh: Most average Americans would consder me to be MUCH too strong with my faith. ("He's a Jesus freak"!)

I always, when forced to categorize myself, will say "evangelical". More than anything else, I am an evangelical with pentecostal leanings.

Its not confused at all. You...like most people...seem to be obsessed to some degree with the idea everyone must be a "this" or a "that". A Baptist. An Assembly of God. A Church of Christ. A Methodist, etc etc.

None of those terms are scriptural. I prefer to use scriptural terms. When people ask me what I "am", I say things like "I'm a Christian". "I'm a child of God". "I'm a born again person. "I'm a believer", etc.

I am currently plugged in to a pentecostal fellowship. I am also friends of some folks who attend a Baptist church, and I sit in on many of their meetings. Before my current fellowship, it was a Charismatic Church. Before that it was a Southern Baptist Church. Before that it was a house church that met on thursday night weekly. Before that a Cambellite church.

I had enriching and awesome worship and fellowship at all of those places. All of them were made up of believers. Christians. Children of God. We all didnt agree on every "jot and tittle", of doctrine, but we never will in this life.

I can understand that.

Thats OK.

How but Christian? Or Child of God? Or one who is born again? Or a "disciple". How bout "saint". You become all of those things the instant you were born again.

Nothing wrong with statements of belief, but dont let them dictate to you what you must believe. Thats no different than the Catholics who are in bondage to the dictates and suppression of their hierarchy...and in that particular case the people are in bondage to a group teaching paganism and heresy all over the place.

But regarding "proof"...the scriptures say nothing about a statement of beliefs being the "proof". They tell us that the "proof" that someone is born again is a changed life...

God bless you,

Mike

 

I get pentecostal. What do you mean by evangelical?

I hear you, but times have changed since when Scripture was written, when just saying you are a christian served to explain you put your faith in Christ alone. There are groups who claim to be christian, and yet teach heresy.

Yes, I agree implicitly. Allow me to state that not all groups mean the same thing by "born again."

Surely there must be a statement of beliefs, or a catechism, that I can use to show what I believe concerning the fundamental doctrines of Scripture?

 

RevMitchell,

Good grief. Thats one of the weirder things I've come across in a looooong time.

Mike

 

Nunatak,

There is.

(((The scriptures!)))

Justification through faith alone in Christ alone is found in the scriptures.

The principle of turning to the scriptures alone as our authority is found in the sciptures.

The Diety of the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are all taught in the scriptures.

The "individual persons yet one God" truth is taught in the scriptures.

The reality of the new birth, as well as the principle of new life is taught in the scriptures.

Water baptism is taught in the scriptures.

The Lords supper memorial is taught in the scriptures.

On and on it goes.

Why do you need a statement of beliefs if you have a copy of the scriptures?

Mike

 

RevMitchell,

I know. As I've said earlier on this thread, there is nothing wrong with statements of faith. There are times when a short, clear synopsis of what a group holds to comes in handy. My point wasnt to say they should be avoided.

But the poster seemed to be indicating...maybe I misunderstood...with this statement...

....that we just HAVE TO HAVE one of those statements of belief, from some particular demonination, as if someone (like me :wavey: ) couldnt get by without one.

All I was doing is putting them in the proper perspective.

Mike

 

Rev Mitchell,

Thanks for the link regarding the ME group.

I completly disagree with their view of those to passages from earlier being 2 different salvations.

But while we are on the subject, let me just say this.

Thats actually the 1st time I have had an opportunity to dig into their beliefs in depth. I knew there were some threads a while back where those views were being represented, but I didnt post much on them, if at all. Maybe 2 or 3 posts. I just neved got deep into the discussion, and I moved back to other threads that I was very much involved with.

So anyway, having read the entire doctrine and belief page, I have to say that I think the Council of this website that pinned the "damndable heresy" sign on the main page GREATLY overreacted. Stunningly so.

Unless there is some other stuff that is exceedingly problematic, I see no reason to condemn them in such a way.

I was pretty much in agreement with with everything on that statement of beliefs, except the part about some being excluded from the 1000 year millenial period, but included in heaven for eternity.

I dont agree with that, but to me that is clearly a "let your brother be fully persuaded in his own mind" issue. What brothers and sisters believe about end time events is usually never considered to be point of condemnation anywhere, in my experience...until now.

The Catholics who post on here are representing views that are HUGELY more problematic than this peculiar ME belief...yet the Catholics post freely. The ME folks be able to should post freely, imo.

They believe in justification through faith alone, sola scriptura, the triune nature of God, the depravity of sinful man, Christs atonement on our behalf, creation over evolution, etc etc. On and on and on it goes, fine solid teaching straight up and down the line...until the part about end time events, but there was nothing HERETICAL in the least in that part, in my opinion...just different than what most believe. They arent even in the same universe as the Mormons, Scientoligists, JW's, Catholics, Mary Baker Eddy'd group, etc.

Unless there is much more, that is not an the "What we believe" page, I think its quite harsh to condemn then in such a way, and silence them.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

How can that website have periodicals dated from[FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]July, 2007 through December, 2008[/FONT][FONT=&quot]?[/FONT]

 

RevMitcell,

I dont see them as actually teaching 2 salvations. They teach that ALL who have placed their faith in Christ will be in heaven for eternity. They just believe that *some* will not join the others until after the millinial reign period. I dont agree with that, but they do teach that EVERYONE will ultimetly be together in heaven for eternity

I dont see how they get that out of John 3.

I agree with you on that. Christ has "payed" for our unfaithfullness. We experience sorrow, and sometimes Gods chastisement, for our unfaithfulness.

I was thinking the same thing! I was raised Catholic and I have thought to myself a few times when reading their material...."that sounds like their version of purgatory."

Maybe you're right...I'm still not than familiar with them...but right now I cant go that far. I'm just not comfortable lumping them in with the JW's, Mormons, Catholics, Mary Baker Eddy, etc etc.

They seem to be as orthodox as can be with 99% of what they teach...from what I can tell so far....with the only exception being a unique view of end time events. And again, end time events have ALWAYS been a source of much disagreement with multiple views of how things are played out, and end time events have always been controversial.

And again....they believe that ULTIMETLY all will be with Christ for eternity in heaven.

There are LOTS of ultra legalistc christians, some of whom post on this board, who believe that "unfaithfullness" proves that you never were a true believer, and unless you get good an "Holy", you will burn in hell for eternity.

To me, that is MUCH more problematic than what these Millenium Exclusion folks are propagating.

God bless,

Mike

 

RevMitchell,

Well, regarding a litmus test, ultimetly it boils down to this. I certainly dont agree with every "jot and tittle" that they teach, but when I read this on their site....

There is not one syllabul of that is problematic, or that I dont agree completly with. We do not find those beliefs fully presented in the doctrines of the JW's, Mormons, Eddyites, Catholicism, or any number of groups preaching a false gospel. Its very difficult for me to label the ME folks as "heretics", "cultists", or anything else of that nature.

Some Baptists have a saying that goes something like...

"On the essentials, unity. On the non-essentials...freedom".

I have always felt that was an excellant, and biblical, statement. It seems that maybe these folks are being given condemnation on the non-essentials, rather than freedom.

I still feel that I have to view them as brothers and sisters whom I disagree with in some areas.

Grace and peace,

Mike

 

RevMitchell,

I dont know anything about all of this mp3 buisiness. I dont have an mp3 player and dont want one. I know nothing about "downloading" to one.

I'd like to check that stuff out, though. Is there some place where I can just click a link and hear it on "realplayer" or "Windows Media Player"?

Mike

 

Mike,

An mp3 is an audio file that will play on your computer. It's a standard file nowadays. They may give you the option of streaming it (youtube style) or you may be able to download it. That's how I like to do my files on my website, that is, if you don't have dial up and don't have to wait an hour for a file to download.

David

 

Rev Mitchell and Bethelassoc,

Oh, good. I can just click a link. THAT I can do! :laugh:

I'll check out Fausts teachings to get a feel for whats going on.

Thanks,

Mike

 

Surely you see that some who would call themselves fundamentalist would have a problem listening to other viewpoints. I am guessing that within Jesus circle his disciples may have varried in their understandings. Paul and Peter were in dissagreement. But we come together as brothers and sisters who follow Jesus Christ. I think you have to read this quote in the context of the whole story. Rick Warren is actively trying to reach people for Christ for that he is to be commended. We don't all have to be the same to be washed by the blood of the lamb.

 

Hello Brother Mike,

Based on the information your posted above and that contained in your BB User Profile I'll have to ask you to please no longer post in the Baptist Only Section of the BB and restrict your posting to the sections that are open to "All Other Christians."