A Saviour unto Israel

[savedbymercy]

Israel shall be saved !


Isa 45:17

17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

But Israel [ The Elect of God] shall [no doubt about it] be saved in the LORD [ Yahweh in Christ] with an everlasting Salvation..and they [ The Elect or the Israel of God] shall [no doubt about it] not be ashamed nor confounded world without end..

What Israel is spoken of here ? Remember Paul teaches that all are not Israel [ of the Election of Grace] that are of Israel [ the nation]

This Israels salvation is premised upon the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, and not the Mosaic law at Sinai..

This Israel is comprised of the Children of Promise per Rom 9:7-8


7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So the Children of Promise here in vs 8 and the first mentioned Israel in vs 6 are the same.

And thats the Israel in view in Isa 45:17

And their Salvation is sure and based upon the Immutable Counsel of The LORD..

 

[Dr. Walter]

The problem is that your interpretive brackets [] that you have conveniently ADDED to God's Word are not found in God's Word nor does the context support your theory.

In Romans 11:27 the Israel Paul refers to is called "Jacob" and the Gentile elect are NEVER referred to as "Jacob." Indeed, when God uses the term "Jacob" He ALWAYS has reference to the REBELLIOUS ethnic nation of Israel (Mal. 3:6).

Israel shall be saved !


Isa 45:17

17But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

But Israel [ The Elect of God] shall [no doubt about it] be saved in the LORD [ Yahweh in Christ] with an everlasting Salvation..and they [ The Elect or the Israel of God] shall [no doubt about it] not be ashamed nor confounded world without end..

What Israel is spoken of here ? Remember Paul teaches that all are not Israel [ of the Election of Grace] that are of Israel [ the nation]

This Israels salvation is premised upon the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant, and not the Mosaic law at Sinai..

This Israel is comprised of the Children of Promise per Rom 9:7-8


7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8

That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

So the Children of Promise here in vs 8 and the first mentioned Israel in vs 6 are the same.

And thats the Israel in view in Isa 45:17

And their Salvation is sure and based upon the Immutable Counsel of The LORD..

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

In Romans 11:27 the Israel Paul refers to is called "Jacob" and the Gentile elect are NEVER referred to as "Jacob."

Jacob is another name for the Elect of God, The church !

When it is said He shall reign over the House of Jacob as in here Lk 1:33

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Thats the Church, both saved jews and gentiles.

You see, Abraham's Physical descendants are not the Children of God Rom 9:8


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

 

[savedbymercy]

God according to His Promise !

Acts 13:23

23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Salvation is by Promise, and its Limited to a specific People, Israel as here indicated by Paul. Paul does not mean National Israel, but Spiritual Israel, Abraham's Children of Promise as per Rom 9:6-8

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

7Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Salvation through Christ is made sure to all the seed ! Rom 4:16

Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

You see, Salvation is according to Promise unto a certain seed, its not a universal offer , but a given Promise to the Seed of Israel. Its only one people God has promised to save !

Isa 45:17,25

But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Notice Israel shall be saved in the LORD. The word shall denotes Promise ! And again Israel does not mean National Israel according to the Flesh, they were merely a Type, but Israel of Promise..

In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Again, in the LORD shall [promise] all the seed of Israel be Justified. Israel here is Christ. And all of His Seed shall be Justified in Him..

Isa 53:10-11

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.

11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

He shall bear their Iniquities ! Whose Iniquities ? His Seed, and so by ding, He Justifies them as promised !

Isa identifies this same Servant as Israel here Isa 49:3

3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

Thats referring to Christ !

 

[savedbymercy]

Israel and Church the same !

What do I mean that Israel and the Church are the same ? I am not speaking about Physical National Israel, but Spiritual Israel that was within her. Remember there were Two Israel's Rom 9:6

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

You had the Physical Nation comprised of Abraham's Natural descendants, that was Israel, and you had Abraham's Spiritual descendants within the Nation, also called the Remnant, that was Israel.

The Church of the New Covenant is the Spiritual Remnant Israel that was in Physical Israel, the Nation..

Now Paul writing to both jew and gentile believers in Corinth applies a OT Promise to them indicating that the OT Remnant Israel, of the Election of Grace is the Same as the NT Remnant of Election of Grace comprised of both jews and gentiles God's People. Lets look at 2 Cor 6:14-7:1

14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Cor 7:1

1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

What Promises ? Why the Promises that were made to Israel in the OT like Leviticus 26:11-12


11And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.

12And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.

Ezk 37:


26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.

27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Now these Promises of the abiding presence of God to Israel, Paul says to the Corinthians in 2 Cor 7:1 that these promises are their motives for 2 Cor 7:1

1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Spiritual cleansing from all filthiness of the flesh, and perfecting holiness in the fear of the Lord. So those OT promises are fulfilled in the Church with Spiritual Israel..

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



Jacob is another name for the Elect of God, The church !

When it is said He shall reign over the House of Jacob as in here Lk 1:33

And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Thats the Church, both saved jews and gentiles.

You see, Abraham's Physical descendants are not the Children of God Rom 9:8


8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Pure presumption without one shred of Biblical evidence that "Jacob" means the church.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Israel and Church the same !

What do I mean that Israel and the Church are the same ? I am not speaking about Physical National Israel, but Spiritual Israel that was within her. Remember there were Two Israel's Rom 9:6

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

You had the Physical Nation comprised of Abraham's Natural descendants, that was Israel, and you had Abraham's Spiritual descendants within the Nation, also called the Remnant, that was Israel.

Both uses of the term "Israel" in Romans 9:6 refer to ethnic Israel. Paul's point is very simple, Israel composed of once born jews is the not the promised Israel of TWICE born Jews.

The Church of the New Covenant is the Spiritual Remnant Israel that was in Physical Israel, the Nation..

Now Paul writing to both jew and gentile believers in Corinth applies a OT Promise to them indicating that the OT Remnant Israel, of the Election of Grace is the Same as the NT Remnant of Election of Grace comprised of both jews and gentiles God's People. Lets look at 2 Cor 6:14-7:1

14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

False and irrational reasoning! Simply because all the elect share the same salvation does not mean Jews are to be defined as gentiles or gentiles be defined as Jews or the church be defined as Israel or Israel defined as the church. The same salvation applied to Israel will be applied to the elect who preceded Abraham in Genesis 1-11 as well as, the gentiles who followed the temporary setting apart of Israel.

The church and the elect are not synonyms. The elect preceded the building of the church as the Church is strictly confined to the New Testament - its foundation and first members are Apostles and prophets (Eph. 2:20; 1 Cor. 12:28) not Old Testament elect saints.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

Both uses of the term "Israel" in Romans 9:6 refer to ethnic Israel

Paul does not say that.

However paul points out that there are Two distinct Israels, one comprised totally of Abraham's Physical descendants, and one comprised of His Spiritual descendants. Now it's possible for some of His Physical descendants to be part of His Spiritual Descendants, in fact, up until Paul's time most of them [Spiritual Descendants] were of Abraham's Physical descendants, but His Spiritual descendants also included gentiles of the Nations, thats why God named Him Abraham in Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So technically His Name Abraham God first called Him because He was the Father of Many Nations, different ethnic groups, Spiritually ! When I say Spiritually, I mean God gave Him Spiritual descendants that would believe on Christ, and so they were called Abraham's Seed as well Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you believe Paul in this verse[Gal 3:29] is speaking only to ethnic jews who are believers in Christ or Gentile Believers also ?

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



Paul does not say that.

The immediate context demands it! Verses 3 is talking about "my kinsman ACCORDING TO THE FLESH" not gentiles. There are NO GENTILES ever mentioned in verses 1-23. The grammar demands it, as the word "who" in verse 5 stems back to Jews NOT GENTILES! Hence right up to verse 6 there are NO GENTILES. Verses 7-23 there are NO GENTILES.

Romans 9:23-11:25 Gentiles are ALWAYS contrasted with the term "Israel" NEVER INCLUSIVE!

but His Spiritual descendants also included gentiles of the Nations, thats why God named Him Abraham in Gen 17:5

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So technically His Name Abraham God first called Him because He was the Father of Many Nations, different ethnic groups, Spiritually ! When I say Spiritually, I mean God gave Him Spiritual descendants that would believe on Christ, and so they were called Abraham's Seed as well Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you believe Paul in this verse[Gal 3:29] is speaking only to ethnic jews who are believers in Christ or Gentile Believers also ?

What you intentionally ignore is the fact that Abraham is the father of BOTH PLURAL Gentile nations and in addition the father of SINGULAR Israel as a nation without confusing the two.

Furthermore, you intentionally ignore that what was cut off for the sake of the gentiles in Romans 11 ISRAEL AS A NATION - Not "remnant" Israel - and what is grafted back again into her "own" tree is exactly what was cut off - Israel as a nation.

Finally, you ignore context, grammar and plain common sense when it comes to the explicit teaching of Paul in Romans 11:25-29 which corresponds perfectly with Zecharian 12-13.

In short, you EXPLOIT and PERVERT the Word of God with no objectivity or honesty.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

The immediate context demands it!

The immediate context does not say that. The verse points out that Paul viewed Two Sperate Israels in Rom 9:6. One is Abraham's descendants according to the flesh, and one His descendants according to Promise, which is a Spiritual descendant.

Now answer the question, here it is again !

Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you believe Paul in this verse[Gal 3:29] is speaking only to ethnic jews who are believers in Christ or Gentile Believers also ?

 

[savedbymercy]

Two Sets of descendants !

God gave Abraham Two sets of Descendants, a set that would be the result of fleshly intercourse like His Son Ishmael was the result of, and a set that would be the result of God's word of Promise as Isaac was. Both sets are called Israel Rom 9:6 Israel according to the Flesh, and Israel according to Promise. Children according to the Flesh, Children according to the Promise.

Now Abraham's Children according to Promise are not restricted to Abraham's Physical blood line, though it includes some of them. If it only included His Physical Blood line Children, then Gal 3:29 and Gal 4:28 can only apply to physical ethnic jews, which is not the case..

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



The immediate context does not say that. The verse points out that Paul viewed Two Sperate Israels in Rom 9:6. One is Abraham's descendants according to the flesh, and one His descendants according to Promise, which is a Spiritual descendant.

You totally disregard grammar and every single definitive evidence of immediate context that precedes and follows that text in order to FORCE your interpretation upon that text! No objectivity, no honesty no adherence to standard principles of interpretation. Therefore, you can make it apply to Santa Clause the way you interpret scriptures!

Now answer the question, here it is again !

Neither Galatians 3:29 or 4:28 use the word "Israel."

Your question demonstrates my point. Some how in your mind you IMAGINE that Abraham has but ONE nation that can be called his "seed" when he is a father of MANY NATIONS and in addition to "MANY NATIONS" he is the father of ONE ELECT NATION separate and distinct from the rest - the NATION of Israel. Hence, Galatians 3:29 refers to elect from BOTH - the promised children out of MANY NATIONS in addition to the promised children currently from "remnant" Israel and ultimately from Israel as a nation in its fullness at the coming of Christ (Rom. 11:25-29). Together they now make up the KINGDOM OF GOD on earth and when Israel as a NATION is saved the theocratic kingdom of God will be ushered into power upon earth.

 

[Dr. Walter]

God gave Abraham Two sets of Descendants, a set that would be the result of fleshly intercourse like His Son Ishmael was the result of, and a set that would be the result of God's word of Promise as Isaac was. Both sets are called Israel Rom 9:6 Israel according to the Flesh, and Israel according to Promise. Children according to the Flesh, Children according to the Promise.

Both statements above are completely false! Ishmael and his descendents were NEVER called "Israel."

Second, the "MANY NATIONS" did not come from Ishmael but only the Arab nations. The Germanic nations did not come from Ishmael or the Negroid nations or the Slavic nations. You simply do not know what you are talking about!

What you should have said was, God promised two different ethnic spiritual seed through Abraham - Gentile seed of promise from "MANY NATIONS" who for the MOST PART have absolutely no PHYSICAL relationship to Abraham; and a JEWISH seed that comprises of a "remnant" between Abraham and the second coming but is fulfilled in NATIONAL salvation at Christ's return.

Now Abraham's Children according to Promise are not restricted to Abraham's Physical blood line, though it includes some of them. If it only included His Physical Blood line Children, then Gal 3:29 and Gal 4:28 can only apply to physical ethnic jews, which is not the case..

That is patently false! Paul does not use the term "Israel" in Galatians 3:29 and Galatians 4:28 but rather refers to the "seed" of promise which could come from MANY NATIONS or THE NATION of Israel.

You are FORCING your interpretation upon all these passages when they do not call for it at all!

According to your mentality these texts ought to have read thus:

Gal. 3:29 And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye ISRAEL, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal. 4:28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of ISRAEL.

However, these texts DO NOT SAY THAT! The reason they do not say that is because the promise seed are drawn from MANY NATIONS as well as from the NATION of Israel and Gentiles do not become Israelites and Israelites do not become Gentiles, as there is equal basis to argue the Israelites by salvation become MANY NATIONS as much as there is to argue many nations become Israelites.

Be honest with how the text reads! It does not say "Israel"! You have built a straw man argument and burnt it because GENTILES can be identified as the "seed" because they come from MANY NATIONS as much as Israelites can be identified as the promised "seed" without confusing either.

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

So technically His Name Abraham God first called Him because He was the Father of Many Nations, different ethnic groups, Spiritually ! When I say Spiritually, I mean God gave Him Spiritual descendants that would believe on Christ, and so they were called Abraham's Seed as well Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you believe Paul in this verse[Gal 3:29] is speaking only to ethnic jews who are believers in Christ or Gentile Believers also ?

Jacob is called "Israel" not Abraham. Isaac is not called "Israel." Gal. 3:29 nor Gal. 4:28 ever use the term "Israel."

Abraham's promised seed come from two sources "MANY NATIONS" and the nation of "Israel." Hence, you cannot PRESUME the term "seed" in either of these passages is a synonym for "Israel" as that assumption is based upon circular reasoning. You cannot assume what you are being challenged to prove to be true! You are assuming "seed" in these texts means "Israel" when there is no basis for that assumption.

 

[savedbymercy]

Because NT Believers are The Children of the OT Prophets!

That the NT Church and The OT Church are the same, because Believers in Christ under the New Covenant dispensation are the Spiritual Children of the OT Prophets Gal 3:7,29 Acts 3:25-26

Gal 3:7

7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.


29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The word seed here is the greek word sperma and means:

the product of this semen, seed, children, offspring, progeny

b) family, tribe, posterity

Acts 3:25-26

25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Now even though Peter was specifically speaking to ethnic jews here, what he said was not restricted to them, for the criteria of him stating what he stated was The Promise God made to Abraham " And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed"

Its the very same criteria that Paul stated when speaking of Gentile Believers Gal 3:8

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

And as we seen in Gal 3:7 these gentiles because of Faith are Abraham's Children, who by the way is called a Prophet here Gen 20:

7Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

So what Peter stated in Acts 3:25 a Ye are the Children of the Prophets, applies to Gentile Believers also..

 

[Dr. Walter]

That the NT Church and The OT Church are the same, because Believers in Christ under the New Covenant dispensation are the Spiritual Children of the OT Prophets

So, why are the apostles the "FIRST" to be added to the Church - 1 Cor. 12:28

So, why are the apostles the "FOUNDATION" of the church - Eph. 2:20

Old Testament prophets and Old Testament saints could not be part of the New Covenant church as it was not even built until Christ built it during his personal ministry (Mt. 16:18). If the church had existed previous to the apostles and New Testament prophets there is no way Paul could say the apostles were the "FIRST" to be SET IN the church or that they were the FOUNDATION of the church.

You simply refuse to use common sense or to abide by sound principles of hermeneutics! How many SPIRITUAL fathers do children of God have???????

1. Paul said he had begotton those he discipled - Paul a spiritual father
2. The prophets you say are spiritual Father's
3. Abraham is our spiritual Father
4. God is our spiritual Father
5. Satan was our Father - Jn. 8:44

The term "father" is used commonly in scriptures for SOURCE and/or ROLE MODEL. It is used INSTRUMENTALLY. Sometimes it is literal/physical and other times metaphorical.

How were they "children of the prophets"? Literal or metaphorical? The New Testament scriptures were not available when Paul wrote. The only scriptures available were those produced by the "prophets." God used the writings of the prophets - the word of God to beget children. Since the Old Testament scriptures came INSTRUMENTALLY through the prophets, thus they were METAPHORICAL "children of the prophets." This is exactly the sense that Paul had "begotten" some and was a "father" to those who were saved under him. Not their Literal physical father. Not literal physical seiman. Metaphorical "father" and metaphorical "seed."

Physical life comes from God as the original source (Father) much more spiritual life. God is the original source (father) for both physical and spiritual life but God uses many instrumental and METAPHORICAL sources (fathers) for both.

For example, spiritual life comes from God as the primary/original source (Father) but spiritual life comes through the metaphorical "seed" of the Word of God and the prophets are the instrumental and metaphorical sources (fathers) whereby the word comes to us. They are not our literal physical father's any more than "the seed" of God's Word which they wrote is our literal source of physical life. They are METAPHORICAL father's in the sense of instruments used by God.

Sorry, but the church under the New Covenant had NO EXISTENCE previous to the ministry of Christ on earth and EXCLUDES old Testament saints as well as the prophets. It is something that Christ built in his personal ministry on earth and the apostles were the "FIRST" to be set in the church (1 Cor. 12:28) and that very statement exposes your teaching as false doctrine. The aposles cannot possible be the "FIRST" to be set in the church if Old Testament saints are in this church. Neither can the apostles and New Testament prophets (who were set SECOND - I Cor. 12:28) in the church be the "foundation" if Old Testament saints were in this church previously.

Yes, that puts a nail in the coffin of your whole ecclesiology. When you attempt to mix ecclesiology with soteriology (like Rome) you not only run into a lot of problems with the scriptures but you are teaching a church salvation. Your idea of salvation is just like Rome's. If you are lost you are outside your kind of church and if you are saved you are in your kind of church - hence church salvation instead of Christ salvation. The church has nothing to do with salvation but with service. The church is "the house of God" where a properly ordained ministry stand to administer the ordinances of God to baptized beleivers already "in Christ" by regeneration and justification.

 

[Dr. Walter]

You can't be a New Testament church IF you don't even know what it is! Rome and Protestantism teach a church salvation. To be in the church is to be saved and to be outside the church is to be lost. Rome defines their church as universal visible while Protestantism defines their church as universal invisible but neither distinguishes the church from salvation.

Many of the Christian cults of the 19th century also teach church salvation. To be outside their kind of church is to be lost and to be in their kind of church is to be saved. They define their kind of church as local and visible.

True New Testament churches distinguish between salvation and the church. The church is "the house of God" where a properly ordained ministry administer the ordinances in the kingdom of God and where "the keys of the kingdom" reside (Mt. 18:17-18). Only those who are already SAVED - already BORN AGAIN, already in the family of God, already children of God, already "in Christ" by regeneration and justification are proper candidates to be considered for baptism and church membership (Acts 2:41). Those already saved are added to the church in that manner (Acts 2:47). The church is a local visible congregational body of Christ consisting of properly baptized believers who can and who do habitually assembly together in one place wherever they may live. ("when you come together in one place" - 1 Cor. 11).

The elect existed from Genesis to Matthew but the New Testament church had no previous existence to the earthly ministry of Christ (Mt. 16:18) and to the "FIRST" to be set in the church (apostles - I Cor. 12:28) as these were the corner stone and foundation of the church (Eph. 2:20).

Hence, true churches of Christ DO NOT claim they are the only ones saved as they demand a profession of salvation BEFORE accepting persons for baptism and membership. True churches of Christ recognize there are saved people not only outside their own congregations but even in institutions that preach "another gospel" as God is able to save people in spite of the institution they are in or those who are in no institution. True congregations of Christ do not confuse salvation with church membership on any level of thinking or theology. The gospel is for the lost to be saved and the church is for the saved to serve.

Just as there are Biblical essentials necessary to be saved, there are Biblical essentials necessary to be true churches. (1) the right gospel; (2) the right ordinances; (3) the absence of institutional approved apostate doctrines; (4) the right church government and officers.

 

[savedbymercy]

dw

So, why are the apostles the "FIRST" to be added to the Church - 1 Cor. 12:28

This speaks to the Church in its New Covenant existence ! They received more light than their OT counterparts the Prophets 1 Pet 1:10

Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Also you ignored much Truth in Post 35. None of it have you refuted, because you cannot.

 

[savedbymercy]

As has been seen dw has not answered the question yet. Here it is again for anyone to answer.

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Do you believe Paul in this verse[Gal 3:29] is speaking only to ethnic jews who are believers in Christ or Gentile Believers also ?

Is Abraha's Seed here in Gal 3:29 restricted to only ethnic jews ? Yes or No ? Anyone care to answer the question ?

 

[Dr. Walter]

dw



This speaks to the Church in its New Covenant existence ! They received more light than their OT counterparts the Prophets 1 Pet 1:10

The text says they were the first to be "set in" the church NOT that they were the first to receive greater light in the church - Inspired chosen language means nothing to you.

Ephesians 2:20 says they are the "foundation" not the ROOF TOP. Anyone who knows anything about building knows you begin with the foundation not the roof!!! The combination "foundation" and "set first" destroys your imaginative teaching. The fact that Jesus uses the FUTURE tense in Mt. 16:18 demonlishes your theory into oblivion.