A serious issue

[Sam_the_Brave]

These are not orders to “exterminate unbelievers.”

God’s order to the Hebrew people to utterly destroy their enemies as they claimed the land God had promised was to prevent idolatry from taking hold in their culture.

They didn’t follow God’s command, idolatry came in, and the people suffered greatly, including human sacrifice of infants.

You can dress the verses up as benignly as you want. The believers are told to put their idolatrous enemies to the sword - including the (presumably innocent) kids. Read it. How can any reasonable person subscribe to that? .

 

[atpollard]

This is a VERY challenging question put to me by a friend. I couldn't answer it, and I'm not sure even a skilled theologian could do so.

Some children were playing a game and became trapped in an airtight container. All of them suffocated, and it must have been horrendous. It blew a hole through their family forever.

Now, my friend said that God must have known what was happening. Must have known that those kids were trapped. How come there was no intervention? (If you or I, or any sane person had known this, we would have acted straight away.)

As I said, I had no answer to give.

In addition to the answer already given about the responsibility of mankind (God did not create the container, God did not force the children to enter it, God did not trap them in it) ... What is so terrible about what God did?

Do you imagine those children are writhing in eternal torment for the sin of suffocating in a box? God comforted them in their last moments in a neglectful world and carried them in his loving arms to a place with no more suffering and no more pain. The parents and families in India are likely "devastated" because they are a people without hope.

I lost an unborn child to miscarriage too early to identify the gender, and I wept for our loss (my wife and mine), but I am convinced that I will one day meet our son in heaven. Life is hard and the world is evil ... but God is very, very good.

From what I know of the world, the question is not "Why do children die" but rather "Why do so many children live when the world works so hard to kill and destroy?" The only answer that I can see is "because God is merciful".

Romans 9:15 [NASB]
For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."

 

[atpollard]

You can dress the verses up as benignly as you want. The believers are told to put their idolatrous enemies to the sword - including the (presumably innocent) kids. Read it. How can any reasonable person subscribe to that?

Why would you presume their children were innocent when God said otherwise?

Quick lesson on the worship of Molech: Parents were required to "joyfully" offer their child to the god Molech. The bound child was placed into the arms of a statue by the father where it rolled down into a fire in the belly of the statue. The mother was forbidden to cry and the priests would play loud music and chant loudly to drown out the cries if any parent disobeyed.

The parents, not being fools, made it a common practice to adopt and raise a young child in their home for the specific purpose of being offered in place of their child at the altar of Molech. These are the innocent Canaanites whose death God commanded and you are lamenting. These "innocent children" kept other children as pets to be slaughtered ... like a 4H project.

 

[canadyjd]

You can dress the verses up as benignly as you want. The believers are told to put their idolatrous enemies to the sword - including the (presumably innocent) kids. Read it. How can any reasonable person subscribe to that? .

It seems you want to cast judgment upon God for His commands to the Hebrew people 3,500 years ago.

I’ve tried to explain it, in the context it occurred. Beyond that, I suppose you will just have to wrestle with your conscience as to whether you think God is righteous and Holy or not.

Edit to add: I don’t think you can refer to them as “believers” since they didn’t obey God and utterly destroy the enemies of God.

Peace to you

 

[Iconoclast]

A Holy God has every right to destroy sinful people.
Do you understand why it is called mercy and grace that any are spared?
I am more than suspicious of blame God for mans sin posts.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

But the atheist Sam Harris provides some VERY challenging objections and persuasive solutions. As you can see, I'm having problems again, and I envy people their clarity....

I didn’t realize Sam Harris offers much in the way of an overall solution. I’ve gathered he thinks he can come up with a better morality than Jesus. Forgive me if I’m a bit skeptical, but then there shouldn’t be much objection, given that he prides himself on being so. In any case, perhaps you would like to articulate just what sounds so convincing from Sam Harris?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I was seriously abused in the church.

I’ve had my own struggles with the way other Christians and certain churches have operated. I’m not claiming to understand the abuse you went through, though, especially since I have no idea what it was.

It is important to have a good mentor, someone qualified to disciple you, someone who understands what you’ve been through and knows how to help you grow in your faith.

 

[Van]

Yes, and though I hate to admit it, the atheist answer is at least clear, concise and defensible. Christian answers rely on convoluted sophistry

I may be young, but I'm no stranger to suffering. .

"Why do bad things happen to good people?"
The answer, I believe, is to facilitate the lost to seek God as a refuge.

Clear, concise and defensible Christian answer without convoluted sophistry.

 

[atpollard]

"Why do bad things happen to good people?"
The answer, I believe, is to facilitate the lost to seek God as a refuge.

Clear, concise and defensible Christian answer without convoluted sophistry.

Good answer.
Of course it still will not matter to an atheist or agnostic whose real goal is just to complain that "God is not fair".

 

[atpollard]

Yes, and though I hate to admit it, the atheist answer is at least clear, concise and defensible.

I prefer TRUE when looking for answers.
I tried "atheism" but it failed the test of TRUTH.

Things don't spontaneously spring from nothing.
Too many "coincidences" snap the suspenders of disbelief.
"There is a natural world, and there is a spiritual world"
The universe moves from greater complexity to greater simplicity (entropy) unless acted on by an outside force (God).

 

[Alex2165]

I heard this question many times before, from the atheists and from the Christians: Why GOD do not stop this or that, and so on.


Well, actually He does stop certain things but do it on His Own terms and at His time of choice, and the Bible full of such episodes.


But beside this GOD also established many different and complex processes. For example the process of seasons, the process of growth, the process of circulations, the process of birth, the process of life, the process of death, and more.


But it seems that the most important process of all is the process of time, because this particular process controls everything, but only in the physical dimension.


And it looks like this process of time predetermined and in some cases even predestined certain aspects of our lives and also our life spend.


Nobody knows why it is predetermined this ways, why some born dead or die young, but one thing is absolutely clear, we cannot control time, life, and death.


If GOD will intervene at every accident and at every occasion the world of course will be free from misery, wars, poverty, diseases, famine, all accidents, and death. And despite the feeling that such idea looks quite utopian, it is actually will happen then GOD will rule the Earth, and human physical body again will inherit its immortality.


But for now we have to submit ourselves to something we cannot control, the TIME.


Ecclesiastes 3.1-8.11.15.17

1.For everything there is season, and a time for every matter under Heaven,

2.a time to be born, and a time to die, a time to plant, and a time to pick up what is planted,

3.a time to kill, and a time to heal, a time to break down, and a time to build up,

4.a time to weep, and a time to laugh, a time to mourn, and a time to dance,

5.a time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together, a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing,

6.a time to seek, and a time to lose, a time to keep, and a time to throw away,

7.a time to tear, and a time to sew, a time to keep silence, and a time to speak,

8.a time to love, and a time to hate, a time for war, and a time for peace.


11.He has made everything suitable for its time, moreover, He has put a sense of past and future into their minds, yet, they cannot find out what GOD has done from the beginning to the end.


15.That which is already been that which is to be already is, and GOD seeks out what has done by.


17.I said in my heart, "GOD will judge the righteous and the wicked," He has appointed a time for every matter and for every work.



Ecclesiastes 9.12

12.No one can anticipate the time of disaster. Like fish taken in a cruel net and like birds caught in a snare, so mortals are snared at a time of calamity, when it suddenly falls upon them.

 

[Roy]

Yes, and though I hate to admit it, the atheist answer is at least clear, concise and defensible. Christian answers rely on convoluted sophistry

Psalm 14

King James Version

14 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Stop listening to fools.

 

[timtofly]

This is a VERY challenging question put to me by a friend. I couldn't answer it, and I'm not sure even a skilled theologian could do so.

Some children were playing a game and became trapped in an airtight container. All of them suffocated, and it must have been horrendous. It blew a hole through their family forever.

Now, my friend said that God must have known what was happening. Must have known that those kids were trapped. How come there was no intervention? (If you or I, or any sane person had known this, we would have acted straight away.)

As I said, I had no answer to give.

Taking them home to be with God very well could have been an intervention. Only God knows the intervention part. Of course all want to hold onto their loved ones forever. That happens in Paradise, not earth.