Thomas Helwys
New Member
See bolded part: I just wanted to add that I appreciate your saying that. I have no animosity toward you. I just wish people wouldn't say things that are not factual.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
A special message for those of you expecting to go to heaven
- Thread starter evangelist-7
- Start date
See bolded part: I just wanted to add that I appreciate your saying that. I have no animosity toward you. I just wish people wouldn't say things that are not factual.
Alive in Christ
New Member
evangelist-7...
You are 100 % correct. And I am so thankfull that God has "imputed" the sinless rightesness of the Lord Jesus to me, as a totaly undeserved GIFT!
So, I can relax, as I live in the goodness of Christ living His life in and through me.
Holiness is required
“… but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” (1 Peter 1:15-16, NKJV)
“… we should be holy and without blame before Him in love …” (Ephesians 1:4, NKJV)
“… to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight,
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast,
and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel …” (Colossians 1:22-23, NKJV)
More verses: 2 Timothy 1:9, 2 Peter 3:11, Romans 12:1, 1 Peter 2:5-9, Rev. 20:6, 21:8
Perfection is required
You are 100 % correct. And I am so thankfull that God has "imputed" the sinless rightesness of the Lord Jesus to me, as a totaly undeserved GIFT!
So, I can relax, as I live in the goodness of Christ living His life in and through me.
For it is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives through me...
Last edited by a moderator:
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
Just To Clarify....
Since I don't know your real name I have to address you as "Thomas"....Thomas....I just want to clarify a few things about what I have said (I also appreciate your acknowledgement that you appreciated
my comment about "no disrespect" and that you hold no animosity in a subsequent post in this thread). When I made the previous comments I made about Baptists(in general) and salvation and eternal security I was not referring in particular to Arminians OR Calvinists or any particular "stripe" or "type" of Baptist in particular. Perhaps I was painting with too broad a brush. I tend to discount the Arminian/Calvin thing because I consider myself to be neither (nor do I wish to be). I am a Bible Believer and as such there are probably elements of all of them embedded in my make-up. I just don't tend to draw the kind of "battle-lines" that many do. I think the folks we'll see in heaven will be quite a surprize to many. I also meant no despite to the real "Thomas Helwys"or the English Baptists for that matter...at least not deliberately....since I really have no idea who he is. I know a lot of stuff but his name rings no bells with me. You may give me a history lesson if you wish...I'd be happy to hear it. In any case...it is not part of my normal nature to deliberately hurl insults at anybody. I have gooten mad enough to do so from time to time but I try to subdue that part of my old nature and walk in the Spirit. By the way...I am a baptist by conviction because I believe they are closest in faith and practice to the Biblical faith "once delivered unto the saints"...BUT.... I don't believe there will be any "baptists" in heaven....only Blood-washed Christians who got there by faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Bro.Greg:jesus:
It is a gross misrepresentation to say that Arminian Baptists believe "that there is some amount of works or deeds that they can or must do in order to keep themselves "current" in a salvation that they could never earn (or deserve) IN THE FIRST PLACE." Arminian Baptists do not believe that! It is an insult to the real Thomas Helwys and the first English Baptists to say such a thing.
Since I don't know your real name I have to address you as "Thomas"....Thomas....I just want to clarify a few things about what I have said (I also appreciate your acknowledgement that you appreciated
my comment about "no disrespect" and that you hold no animosity in a subsequent post in this thread). When I made the previous comments I made about Baptists(in general) and salvation and eternal security I was not referring in particular to Arminians OR Calvinists or any particular "stripe" or "type" of Baptist in particular. Perhaps I was painting with too broad a brush. I tend to discount the Arminian/Calvin thing because I consider myself to be neither (nor do I wish to be). I am a Bible Believer and as such there are probably elements of all of them embedded in my make-up. I just don't tend to draw the kind of "battle-lines" that many do. I think the folks we'll see in heaven will be quite a surprize to many. I also meant no despite to the real "Thomas Helwys"or the English Baptists for that matter...at least not deliberately....since I really have no idea who he is. I know a lot of stuff but his name rings no bells with me. You may give me a history lesson if you wish...I'd be happy to hear it. In any case...it is not part of my normal nature to deliberately hurl insults at anybody. I have gooten mad enough to do so from time to time but I try to subdue that part of my old nature and walk in the Spirit. By the way...I am a baptist by conviction because I believe they are closest in faith and practice to the Biblical faith "once delivered unto the saints"...BUT.... I don't believe there will be any "baptists" in heaven....only Blood-washed Christians who got there by faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Bro.Greg:jesus:
evangelist-7
New Member
Some verses that warn against losing eternal life
Matthew 10:39 ---- He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 16:25 ---- For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake will find it.
Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24 ---- For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.
Romans 2:7-8 ---- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory,
honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth,
but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath …
1 John 3:15 ---- Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Galatians 6:8 ---- For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Matthew 7:14 ---- Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life,
and there are few who find it.
Matthew 18:8-9 ---- If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet,
to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 19:17 ---- But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 25:45-46 ---- inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these,
you did not do it to Me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment
Romans 8:6 ---- For to be carnally minded is death
James 1:12 ---- Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
1 John 2:3 ---- Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
Jude 1:20-21 ---- But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy
of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Revelation 2:10 ---- Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 3:5 ---- He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 22:14 ---- Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have
the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
There are dozens of other dire warnings to do such and such … or else!
-- hang onto eternal life
-- hope for eternal life
-- obey the will of Father God
-- know and follow Jesus
-- be led by the Spirit of God
-- hate your life
-- do not walk in the flesh
-- walk in the Spirit
-- repent of your sins
-- be an overcomer
-- continue in the faith
-- do not be disobedient
-- do not be a habitual sinner
-- examine yourself to see if you are disqualified
-- hey, don't be lukewarm unless you would like to be spewed out of Jesus' mouth!
.
Some verses that warn against losing eternal life
Matthew 10:39 ---- He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 16:25 ---- For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake will find it.
Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24 ---- For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.
Romans 2:7-8 ---- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory,
honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth,
but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath …
1 John 3:15 ---- Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Galatians 6:8 ---- For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Matthew 7:14 ---- Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life,
and there are few who find it.
Matthew 18:8-9 ---- If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet,
to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 19:17 ---- But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 25:45-46 ---- inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these,
you did not do it to Me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment
Romans 8:6 ---- For to be carnally minded is death
James 1:12 ---- Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
1 John 2:3 ---- Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
Jude 1:20-21 ---- But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy
of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Revelation 2:10 ---- Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 3:5 ---- He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 22:14 ---- Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have
the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
There are dozens of other dire warnings to do such and such … or else!
-- hang onto eternal life
-- hope for eternal life
-- obey the will of Father God
-- know and follow Jesus
-- be led by the Spirit of God
-- hate your life
-- do not walk in the flesh
-- walk in the Spirit
-- repent of your sins
-- be an overcomer
-- continue in the faith
-- do not be disobedient
-- do not be a habitual sinner
-- examine yourself to see if you are disqualified
-- hey, don't be lukewarm unless you would like to be spewed out of Jesus' mouth!
.
Wow - I don't know about how you're reading the above verses but I don't see one of them that warns against losing our salvation.
evangelist-7
New Member
Of course, you don't ... because you're spiritually blind.Wow - I don't know about how you're reading the above verses but I don't see one of them that warns against losing our salvation.
Hint: you're supposed to be following the Spirit.
.
Of course, you don't ... because you're spiritually blind.
Hint: you're supposed to be following the Spirit.
.
The spiritually blind are those who are unsaved. Are you calling me unsaved?
evangelist-7
New Member
See, you're provin' it again.The spiritually blind are those who are unsaved. Are you calling me unsaved?
A BAC can be VERY spiritually blind concerning some spiritual matters!
Take the pastor who preaches on a verse today totally differently than he did 20 years ago.
He just didn't see the deeper truth 20 years ago, and so he preached a milked-down version of the truth that day.
The moral of the story is: a lot of people here drink too much milk.
.
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Since I don't know your real name I have to address you as "Thomas"....Thomas....I just want to clarify a few things about what I have said (I also appreciate your acknowledgement that you appreciated
my comment about "no disrespect" and that you hold no animosity in a subsequent post in this thread). When I made the previous comments I made about Baptists(in general) and salvation and eternal security I was not referring in particular to Arminians OR Calvinists or any particular "stripe" or "type" of Baptist in particular. Perhaps I was painting with too broad a brush. I tend to discount the Arminian/Calvin thing because I consider myself to be neither (nor do I wish to be). I am a Bible Believer and as such there are probably elements of all of them embedded in my make-up. I just don't tend to draw the kind of "battle-lines" that many do. I think the folks we'll see in heaven will be quite a surprize to many. I also meant no despite to the real "Thomas Helwys"or the English Baptists for that matter...at least not deliberately....since I really have no idea who he is. I know a lot of stuff but his name rings no bells with me. You may give me a history lesson if you wish...I'd be happy to hear it. In any case...it is not part of my normal nature to deliberately hurl insults at anybody. I have gooten mad enough to do so from time to time but I try to subdue that part of my old nature and walk in the Spirit. By the way...I am a baptist by conviction because I believe they are closest in faith and practice to the Biblical faith "once delivered unto the saints"...BUT.... I don't believe there will be any "baptists" in heaven....only Blood-washed Christians who got there by faith in God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
Bro.Greg:jesus:
Fair enough, and I have thought that you were one of the most congenial and respectful posters on here, and I still believe that.
Here is an article on Thomas Helwys. He is a hero of mine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Helwys
Thomas Helwys
New Member
Of course, you don't ... because you're spiritually blind.
Hint: you're supposed to be following the Spirit.
.
I agree with you on the position of forfeiting one's salvation.
I do not agree with you on your arrogance. Just because she has a different viewpoint from yours does not mean she is spiritually blind.
See, you're provin' it again.
A BAC can be VERY spiritually blind concerning some spiritual matters!
Take the pastor who preaches on a verse today totally differently than he did 20 years ago.
He just didn't see the deeper truth 20 years ago, and so he preached a milked-down version of the truth that day.
The moral of the story is: a lot of people here drink too much milk.
.
Or maybe God has shown him some new insight on the verse. I've had it happen - a verse that I've known for years hits me in a new way when I read it again. It doesn't have to be "milked-down".
But again - According to you I'm spiritually blind. Does that mean I'm unsaved?
Alive in Christ
New Member
Acording the the scriptures there is no such thing as "losing savation"
( one verse among multitudes of course)
He who has the Son, has the life, and can not pass into judgment, for he has he past from death unto life
( one verse among multitudes of course)
Last edited by a moderator:
Alive in Christ
New Member
More...
John 10:28 'His sheep have been given eternal life—they shall never perish'
Eph. 1:3; 2:6 'They are already seated in the heavenlies in Christ'
Eph. 4:30; Rom. 8:23 'They are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption'
John 10:28 'His sheep have been given eternal life—they shall never perish'
Eph. 1:3; 2:6 'They are already seated in the heavenlies in Christ'
Eph. 4:30; Rom. 8:23 'They are sealed by the Holy Spirit until the day of redemption'
evangelist-7
New Member
Of course!He who has the Son, has the life, and can not pass into judgment, for he has he past from death unto life
According the the scriptures there is no such thing as "losing salvation"
( one verse among multitudes of course)
"For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Romans 8:14)
These "as many"s are in Christ, i.e. have the Son ... not all of the ones you erroneously suppose are.
There are lots of verses about who is "in Christ".
Dem is not da ones who only walk an aisle, say a verse, and are told, "All is well".
Today's Laodicean lukewarm believers will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth.
So, they need to be warned, right?
.
Last edited by a moderator:
Gregory Perry Sr.
Active Member
I bet he won't answer THAT!
Ann...I'm betting E-7 won't have the nerve to actually answer that. As I understand the rules of the board (or think I do)...we aren't supposed to question other board members salvation..yes?/no?
In any case...with his narrow and private way of interpreting the scriptures he is listing he has basically "painted himself into a corner" and his only option now is to QUIETLY wait til the paint drys so he can quietly EXIT THE BUILDING!:laugh: We certainly don't need anymore false teaching on the Baptist Board. :BangHead:
Bro.Greg:saint:
Or maybe God has shown him some new insight on the verse. I've had it happen - a verse that I've known for years hits me in a new way when I read it again. It doesn't have to be "milked-down".
But again - According to you I'm spiritually blind. Does that mean I'm unsaved?
Ann...I'm betting E-7 won't have the nerve to actually answer that. As I understand the rules of the board (or think I do)...we aren't supposed to question other board members salvation..yes?/no?
In any case...with his narrow and private way of interpreting the scriptures he is listing he has basically "painted himself into a corner" and his only option now is to QUIETLY wait til the paint drys so he can quietly EXIT THE BUILDING!:laugh: We certainly don't need anymore false teaching on the Baptist Board. :BangHead:
Bro.Greg:saint:
Alive in Christ
New Member
Evagelist7...
When did I say anything about people who just walk an isle? I am talking about everyone who puts their faith in Christ and and recieves the gift of eternal life. They can NEVER be lost.
Not if they are saved! They will be unprofitable christans who will bear little fruit, and will lose rewards.
Sure.
They should be living a vibrant, fruitfull christian life, but they arent.
But they are still saved.
For as many as are being LED by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." (Romans 8:14)
These "as many"s are in Christ, i.e. have the Son ... not all of the ones you erroneously suppose are.
There are lots of verses about who is "in Christ".
Dem is not da ones who only walk an aisle, say a verse, and are told, "All is is well.
When did I say anything about people who just walk an isle? I am talking about everyone who puts their faith in Christ and and recieves the gift of eternal life. They can NEVER be lost.
Today's Laodicean lukewarm believers will be spewed out of Jesus' mouth.
Not if they are saved! They will be unprofitable christans who will bear little fruit, and will lose rewards.
So, they need to be warned, right?
Sure.
They should be living a vibrant, fruitfull christian life, but they arent.
But they are still saved.
All you are doing is spouting your particular doctrine.
You refuse to acknowledge the many verses that warn against
and threaten the loss of eternal life, which I will post tomorrow.
IMO, you won't have the eyes to see them, but maybe someone will.
.
jesus told us that he will rise up ALL the father gave unto him, that NONE come unto him unless drawn by the father, so was he liar, or he didn't get the 'revealtion' that you got, that the Holy spirit seals us as the purchased of god, but that we can undo that by own efforts?
WHY would someone saved by grace of God, indwelt by the HS, even int he end try to break away though?
Some verses that warn against losing eternal life
Matthew 10:39 ---- He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.
Matthew 16:25 ---- For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake will find it.
Mark 8:35, Luke 9:24 ---- For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life
for My sake and the gospel’s will save it.
Romans 2:7-8 ---- eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory,
honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth,
but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath …
1 John 3:15 ---- Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.
Galatians 6:8 ---- For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption,
but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Matthew 7:14 ---- Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life,
and there are few who find it.
Matthew 18:8-9 ---- If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet,
to be cast into the everlasting fire. And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you.
It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.
Matthew 19:17 ---- But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 25:45-46 ---- inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these,
you did not do it to Me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment
Romans 8:6 ---- For to be carnally minded is death
James 1:12 ---- Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved,
he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
1 John 2:3 ---- Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
Jude 1:20-21 ---- But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith,
praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy
of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Revelation 2:10 ---- Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
Revelation 3:5 ---- He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments,
and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life
Revelation 22:14 ---- Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have
the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.
There are dozens of other dire warnings to do such and such … or else!
-- hang onto eternal life
-- hope for eternal life
-- obey the will of Father God
-- know and follow Jesus
-- be led by the Spirit of God
-- hate your life
-- do not walk in the flesh
-- walk in the Spirit
-- repent of your sins
-- be an overcomer
-- continue in the faith
-- do not be disobedient
-- do not be a habitual sinner
-- examine yourself to see if you are disqualified
-- hey, don't be lukewarm unless you would like to be spewed out of Jesus' mouth!
.
Jude said that jesus WILL be able to get us home to heavem hebrews states that he is the great high priest that always intercedes for His people...
again, is jesus NOT sufficient to keep those saved by his work or not?
is his might limited somehow?
See, you're provin' it again.
A BAC can be VERY spiritually blind concerning some spiritual matters!
Take the pastor who preaches on a verse today totally differently than he did 20 years ago.
He just didn't see the deeper truth 20 years ago, and so he preached a milked-down version of the truth that day.
The moral of the story is: a lot of people here drink too much milk.
.
At least we have not drank from the poison your side has!
Or maybe God has shown him some new insight on the verse. I've had it happen - a verse that I've known for years hits me in a new way when I read it again. It doesn't have to be "milked-down".
But again - According to you I'm spiritually blind. Does that mean I'm unsaved?
it means that to him, you need to receive the 'baptism in the HG', and all revealtions shall become clear to you then!