A thread on objectivity and fairness - can bring in views opposing it

[BobRyan]

"Should I go on a crusade of the form "if you don't approve of what Vikings did in the past - you must be a hater"???"

utilyan said: ↑
Thats exactly MY POINT.

Indeed.. you make that point any time someone finds a historic fact about the dark ages. As if we could only admit to that fact if today we go around hating each Catholic that we find.

Total nonsense.

When someone tells me they find some objectionable deeds done by Vikings in those early dark ages I do not refer to them as "haters".

utilyan said: ↑
We should have look out towers in case you pagans decide to raid us at night and rape us?

That is how you treat us!

Not in real life. I real life we get along so well that Catholics end up converting to the SDA denomination. Not exactly the "extermination decree of LATERAN IV" on the part of SDAs toward Catholics.

utilyan said: ↑
If YOU can look at the historical action of the PEOPLE inside an organization and BILL ME for it

We both know I have never done that.

Which is my point

By contrast if I start circling the wagons around Viking atrocities and calling them "infallible" well then you can "bill me".

utilyan said: ↑
You are the one preaching one day I am going to make a sunday law and kill those who dont worship sunday.

On the contrary - I don't say anything at all about you.

What is more - the "future prediction" is not merely that the RCC revives its old ways in Europe and South America -- it is also that Protestant America takes up the practices of the RCC in the dark ages to implement them in America as well.

Is this where you then wish to "imagine" that the rapid evangelism and growth rate of the Adventist church comes by telling each person that we hate them?? You are simply imagining a narrative that simplifies the problems you find here.

What is more there is a great many Evangelicals that "predict" a strong persecution against Christians world wide - will come in the future. Is this where you insist that Evangelicals must then "hate all mankind"??

Seriously??

Hate all mankind? don't try to BS me bob, I'm talking about what your faith does vilify.

Your logic is horribly flawed.

What is more there is a great many Evangelicals that "predict" a strong persecution against Christians world wide - will come in the future. Is this where you insist that Evangelicals must then "hate all mankind"??

If a FALLIBLE opinion of scripture "PREDICT" those white folks of "viking" ancestors will are the anti-christ. Would you have a problem with that?

"fallible opinion of scripture"?

Your argument appears to be grounded.
The point remains - I feel no desire at all to "circle the wagons around atrocities committed by Vikings" nor do I argue that people "hate me" if they notice bad deeds by vikings in ages past.

The point remains.

YOU are the first one to sling mud.

Not so far.

Things can all be cool between us. But you are the one who starts off with "I am a victim, because our prophet says one day you all will make a law against us".

Why not quote me??

And we never said a damn thing! You don't even know us.

You literally call our future children whores. (whore of babylon)

You are quoting you....again

quote me if you want to bill me for something.

Continually quoting yourself and blaming me is getting a bit old.

I will give you some help -- Did you mean to quote me on the subject of LATERAN IV??

 

[BobRyan]

Your prophetess says we use Sunday as a sign of authority,
Show me where in all our teachings where we claim this or even a person claiming this! .

Well I did not bring that subject up... but since you did..

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.


Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.



Question. What do we have based on the "say-so" - Authority of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

Gibbons claimed that Sunday-keeping was the mark of Roman Catholic authority:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters"
letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895). 


"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].


"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."--Priest Brady, in an address at Elizabeth, N.J. on March 17, 1903, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.


"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893 [The Mirror is a Baltimore Roman Catholic weekly newspaper].

"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, 1868, p. 213 [L.G. Segur (1820-1881) was a French Catholic prelate and apologist, and later a diplomatic and judicial official at Rome.]

 

[Yeshua1]

Since my earlier thread is about to close - then lets take a look at the aspects of "objectivity" we see in the following examples..

========================================================
Kingdom of the Cults: appendix

On p. 551 from the section: Adventist Theology and Classical Orthodoxy, Martin writes,

It is unnecessary to document at great length the fact that Seventh-day Adventists adheres tenaciously to the foundational doctrines of Christian theology as these have been held by the Christian church down through the centuries. Dr. Anthony Hoekema, who believes that Seventh-day Adventism is a non-Christian cult, makes this interesting admission, and since Dr. Hoekema is no friend of Adventism, his testimony on this point could hardly be called prejudiced:

“I am of the conviction that Seventh-day Adventism is a cult and not an evangelical denomination. . . . It is recognised with gratitude that there are certain soundly scriptural emphases in the teaching of Seventh-day-Adventism. We are thankful for the Adventists’ affirmation of the infallibility of the Bible, of the Trinity and of the full deity of Jesus Christ. We gratefully acknowledge their teachings on creation and providence, on the incarnation and resurrection of Christ, on the absolute necessity for regeneration, on sanctification by the Holy Spirit, and on Christ’s literal return.”​

Says Martin,

“It is puzzling to me, as a student of non-Christian cult systems, how any group can hold the above doctrines in their proper biblical context, which Dr. Hoekema admits the Adventists do, and still be a non-Christian cult. However we shall deal with this aspect of the critics of Adventism at the end of the chapter; therefore, suffice it to say that the Adventists do have a clean bill of health where the major doctrines of Christian theology are concerned.”
​

p.561. We earlier mentioned Dr. Anthony Hoekema’s book, The Four Major Cults, in which he classifies Seventh-day Adventism as a non-Christian cult system. It is necessary for me to take exception with Dr Hoekema in this area because, in my opinion, the reasons that Dr. Hoekema gives cannot be justified by the Word of God, historical theology, or present-day practices in denominational Christianity as a whole. To illustrate this point, Dr. Hoekema stated, “I am of the conviction that Seventh-day Adventism is a cult and not an evangelical denomination. In support of this evaluation I propose to show that the traits we have found to be distinctive of the cults do apply to this movement.” (389).

Martin writes -

It is Dr. Hoekema’s contention that Ellen White is an extrabiblical authority in that her counsels are taken to be manifestations of the gift of prophecy (1 Corinthians 12). But granting that the Adventists are entitled to believe that this gift was manifested in White as evidence of the charismata (a fact that Dr. Hoekema could hardly honestly challenge, since the gifts of the Spirit have been and are still manifested in the Christian church), why does he not take into consideration the repeated emphasis of Adventist writers concerning their official pronouncement – Questions on Doctrine – to the effect that they do not consider White to be an extrabiblical authority, but that her writings are only authoritative in those areas where they are in agreement with the Word of God, which is the final standard for judging all the gifts of the Spirit?
​

The Church of Rome upholds many truths of Christianity, even more than the Sda, but still teaches another Gospel, as does the Sda!

 

[utilyan]

Well I did not bring that subject up... but since you did..

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.


Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.



Question. What do we have based on the "say-so" - Authority of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

Gibbons claimed that Sunday-keeping was the mark of Roman Catholic authority:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters"
letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895). 


"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].


"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."--Priest Brady, in an address at Elizabeth, N.J. on March 17, 1903, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.


"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893 [The Mirror is a Baltimore Roman Catholic weekly newspaper].

"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, 1868, p. 213 [L.G. Segur (1820-1881) was a French Catholic prelate and apologist, and later a diplomatic and judicial official at Rome.]

None of it says Catholics ever use Sunday as a sign of authority. In fact this is the first time I have ever heard such a retarded claim.

Telling you to "Smell your feet" is a mark of having freedom of speech and authority it doesn't mean "Smell your feet" is the sign of authority.


Also I quoted the great controversy non-inspired false prophecy set by your accuser.

You guys started bad mouthing us from false accusations and "predictions" of a infallible crazy old lady.
That is the bottom line that is the truth. Your faith banks on accusations of brethren and to pass not only a false judgement but to already penalize us with a evil you accuse we "will" commit.

 

[BobRyan]

l I did not bring that subject up... but since you did..

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.


Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.



Question. What do we have based on the "say-so" - Authority of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

Gibbons claimed that Sunday-keeping was the mark of Roman Catholic authority:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters"
letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895). 


"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].


"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."--Priest Brady, in an address at Elizabeth, N.J. on March 17, 1903, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.


"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893 [The Mirror is a Baltimore Roman Catholic weekly newspaper].

"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, 1868, p. 213 [L.G. Segur (1820-1881) was a French Catholic prelate and apologist, and later a diplomatic and judicial official at Rome.]

None of it says Catholics ever use Sunday as a sign of authority. .

On the "say-so of the Catholic church"???

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.


"homage they pay to the authority of the Catholic church??

Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.

close enough

None of it says Catholics ever use Sunday as a sign of authority. In fact this is the first time I have ever heard such a retarded claim.

close enough

 

[BobRyan]

Also I quoted the great controversy non-inspired false prophecy set by your accuser.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Who is "my accuser"??

 

[BobRyan]

None of it says Catholics ever use Sunday as a sign of authority. In fact this is the first time I have ever heard such a retarded claim. .

I did not quote anyone in my post - other than your own Catholic sources.

 

[utilyan]

I did not quote anyone in my post - other than your own Catholic sources.

Its our source when I say it is. Baltimore catechism...china catechism...ninja catechism...No its not a cafeteria choice. Know how many time I read Baltimore catechism? zero.

We are Catholics not baltimorians. We have a catechism available at the Vatican website.

And you have as much permission to teach people what Catholics believe as a Nazi teaches people about Jews.

You are trying to employ dirty tactics to put words in our mouth to things Catholics would never agree to.

No Catholic believes Sunday is a sign of authority, To be clear you are a LIAR or mistakenly misrepresenting our faith agreed?

 

[BobRyan]

Its our source when I say it is.

You said --

utilyan said: ↑
Your prophetess says we use Sunday as a sign of authority,
Show me where in all our teachings where we claim this or even a person claiming this! .

Now your bait-and-switch goes from "show me even one person claiming this" to "no matter how many Catholic sources you show claiming this they don't count if I don't want them to".

What sort of nonsense is that???

Baltimore catechism...china catechism...ninja catechism...No its not a cafeteria choice. Know how many time I read Baltimore catechism? zero.

It has the Papal Imprimature.
It is recognized by Catholic universities and Colleges as a source for explaining Catholic doctrine.

Your "I find it inconvenient so I don't read it" or whatever you wish is not the same as 'there is not even one Catholic person that knows about this or says this".

You can't blame me for your own statements and your own Catholic sources.

You are trying to employ dirty tactics to put words in our mouth to things Catholics would never agree to.

That is total nonsense and we both know it.

I quote your own sources - and your own Papacy puts its seal of approval on them.

Period.

No Catholic believes Sunday is a sign of authority,

Until you take the time -- to read.

l I did not bring that subject up... but since you did..

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.


Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.



Question. What do we have based on the "say-so" - Authority of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

Gibbons claimed that Sunday-keeping was the mark of Roman Catholic authority:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters"
letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895). 


"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].


"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."--Priest Brady, in an address at Elizabeth, N.J. on March 17, 1903, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.


"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893 [The Mirror is a Baltimore Roman Catholic weekly newspaper].

"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, 1868, p. 213 [L.G. Segur (1820-1881) was a French Catholic prelate and apologist, and later a diplomatic and judicial official at Rome.]



On the "say-so of the Catholic church"???

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.


"homage they pay to the authority of the Catholic church??

Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.

Blaming non-Catholics for what your own Cardinals, Priests, Baltimore Catechism Commentaries etc say ---- probably sits well with a tiny few Catholics.. but not all of them will fall for that

-John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time

Apparently you are not.

Question for the reader. How many different ways are there to blame non-Catholics for what Catholics say?

 

[utilyan]

You said --



Now your bait-and-switch goes from "show me even one person claiming this" to "no matter how many Catholic sources you show claiming this they don't count if I don't want them to".

What sort of nonsense is that???



It has the Papal Imprimature.
It is recognized by Catholic universities and Colleges as a source for explaining Catholic doctrine.

Your "I find it inconvenient so I don't read it" or whatever you wish is not the same as 'there is not even one Catholic person that knows about this or says this".

You can't blame me for your own statements and your own Catholic sources.



That is total nonsense and we both know it.

I quote your own sources - and your own Papacy puts its seal of approval on them.

Period.



Until you take the time -- to read.



Blaming non-Catholics for what your own Cardinals, Priests, Baltimore Catechism Commentaries etc say ---- probably sits well with a tiny few Catholics.. but not all of them will fall for that




Apparently you are not.

Question for the reader. How many different ways are there to blame non-Catholics for what Catholics say?

You can find a person to quote anything you want them to quote. Catholic teaching however appropriate from the official Vatican website.

The erroneous claims you point out are not ours. I don't believe those things, Catholics don't believe those things and the church does not teach those things.

How come you are so hard pressed to find something we disagree on that I actually believe and depend on made up lies?

Like the Eucharist the real presence of Jesus, I believe this, Some would call this an idolatry or error.



For example I look at your faith.....and say abortion is wrong why does your church allow murder?

And I give you an official SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST WEBSITE........ and then I want you deny or confirm this is an Cfficial SDA Website.

Abortion


Adventist.org is the Official website of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

© 2018 General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, MD 20904, USA 301-680-6000

These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.



Tell me that is a FALSE website, FAKE SDA website, Maybe you should contact the police to get your hi-jacked official website.

 

[BobRyan]

utilyan said: ↑
Its our source when I say it is.

You said --

utilyan said: ↑
Your prophetess says we use Sunday as a sign of authority,
Show me where in all our teachings where we claim this or even a person claiming this!

.
Now your bait-and-switch goes from "show me even one person claiming this" to "no matter how many Catholic sources you show claiming this they don't count if I don't want them to".

What sort of nonsense is that???

utilyan said: ↑
Baltimore catechism...china catechism...ninja catechism...No its not a cafeteria choice. Know how many time I read Baltimore catechism? zero.

It has the Papal Imprimature. Even if it does not have the "utilyan imprimature"
It is recognized by Catholic universities and Colleges as a source for explaining Catholic doctrine.

Your "I find it inconvenient so I don't read it" or whatever you wish is not the same as 'there is not even one Catholic person that knows about this or says this".

You can't blame me for your own statements and your own Catholic sources.

I can't use even one source that merely has A "utilyan imprimature" because as we both agree - that would be worthless

utilyan said: ↑

You are trying to employ dirty tactics to put words in our mouth to things Catholics would never agree to.

That is total nonsense and we both know it. What nonsense to claim it is 'dirty trick' to use your own Catholic source with your own papal imprimature.

What nonsense

I quote your own sources - and your own Papacy puts its seal of approval on them.

Period.

You can find a person to quote anything you want

1. You were looking for "a person" .. now you bait and switch.

2. Leo Trese is a well admitted Catholic source and his commentary on the Catechism has the Papal Imprimature - EVEN though it does not have the "utilyan imprimateur"

While a Catholic author can certainly publish a manuscript without seeking the bishop’s imprimatur, some works require this official approval before they can be used by the faithful. Prayer books for public or private use, and catechisms or other catechetical materials (or their translations) require the bishop’s permission for publication (Code of Canon Law, #826, 827.1). Books related to Sacred Scripture, theology, canon law, Church history, or religious or moral disciplines cannot be used as textbooks in education at any level unless they are published with the approval of the competent ecclesiastical authority, or receive such approval subsequently (#827.2). Finally, books or other writings which deal with faith or morals cannot be exhibited, sold, or distributed in Churches or oratories unless they are published with the approval of the competent ecclesiastical authority or receive such approval subsequently (#827.4).

Your "some guy off the street" fiction is a convenient story in this case - but hardly approaches the level of dealing with the actual facts in this case - as your own church would insist

 

[BobRyan]

I did not bring that subject up... but since you did..

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.


Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.



Question. What do we have based on the "say-so" - Authority of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

Promoted as "the perfect resource for RCIA classes"

"Imprimatur" and "Nibil Obstat" . -- Confraternity of Christian Doctrine

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

Gibbons claimed that Sunday-keeping was the mark of Roman Catholic authority:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters"
letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895). 


"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].


"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."--Priest Brady, in an address at Elizabeth, N.J. on March 17, 1903, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.


"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893 [The Mirror is a Baltimore Roman Catholic weekly newspaper].

"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, 1868, p. 213 [L.G. Segur (1820-1881) was a French Catholic prelate and apologist, and later a diplomatic and judicial official at Rome.]



On the "say-so of the Catholic church"???

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.


"homage they pay to the authority of the Catholic church??

Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.

 

[BobRyan]

Adventist.org is the Official website of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

1. But contains more statements in it than have been approved of by a vote of the world church representatives.
2. AND I never made the statement to you that no SDA individual ever made a statement such as... (and then follow with something at least one person said on that web site).

Details matter.

 

[utilyan]

1. But contains more statements in it than have been approved of by a vote of the world church representatives.
2. AND I never made the statement to you that no SDA individual ever made a statement such as... (and then follow with something at least one person said on that web site).

Details matter.

Tell me its a false website, that it does not tell the truth and not official SDA


© 2018 General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, MD 20904, USA 301-680-6000

These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.




I think the general conference gets together every 5 years? they select executive committee to run the term.


The executive committee speaks for the WHOLE CHURCH

From the church bylaws:

ARTICLE XIII—GENERAL CONFERENCE EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE Sec. 1. a. During the intervals between Sessions of the General Conference, the General Conference Executive Committee is delegated the authority to act on behalf of the General Conference in Session. The membership of the General Conference Executive Committee includes representatives of all the divisions of the world field and the presidents of all unions and therefore speaks for the world Church.



From the SDA church manual:
At the final Annual Council of a quinquennium, the General Conference Executive Committee reviews all changes to the notes and coordinates the changes with any proposed amendments to the main content of the Church Manual.

These guys ultimately write down your 28 fundamental beliefs.

PAGE 29

SDA CHURCH MANUAL


General Conference the Highest Authority In the Church today the General Conference Session, and the General Conference Executive Committee between Sessions, is the highest ecclesiastical authority in the administration of the Church. The General Conference Executive Committee is authorized by its Constitution to create subordinate organizations with authority to carry out their roles. Therefore all subordinate organizations and institutions throughout the Church will recognize the General Conference Session, and the General Conference Executive Committee between Sessions, as the highest ecclesiastical authority, under God, among Seventh-day Adventists. When differences arise in or between churches and conferences or institutions, matters that are not mutually resolved may be appealed to the next higher organization. If the matter does not get resolved at this level, the aggrieved entity may appeal to successively higher levels of organization. An organization to which an appeal is forwarded may choose not to hear the matter, in which case the decision of the highest organization involved in the dispute shall be final. When organizations review decisions of other


The ORDER that ABORTION IS OK has been given by the General Conference Executive Committee


These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.

Here in the official SDA website you get told what their ruling is......the web page itself is not the ruling.

Abortion


That means that......ITS SDA APPROVED.



The HIGHEST authority in the SDA says ABORTION IS OK.


READ PAGE 29 of the SDA church MANUAL. then Research :
These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.


Every moment you waste another child is going to die because you refuse to speak out against abortion. And it is SDA HOSPITALS doing it too. The SDA church owns "SDA" as a corporation it can pull the name from anyone. But these church are owned by the SDA church!

 

[BobRyan]

utilyan said: ↑
Adventist.org is the Official website of the Seventh-day Adventist world church

1. But contains more statements in it than have been approved of by a vote of the world church representatives.
2. AND I never made the statement to you that no SDA individual ever made a statement such as... (and then follow with something at least one person said on that web site).

Details matter.

Tell me its a false website, that it does not tell the truth and not official SDA


© 2018 General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists

12501 Old Columbia Pike, Silver Spring, MD 20904, USA 301-680-6000

Certainly it is true that the english majors and the web admins that put content on that site are messing with the official website -- but they are not always acting in response to voted statements of the denomination.


These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.

Which is telling you that it was NOT voted on by the actual world wide church representatives.

General Conference the Highest Authority In the Church today the General Conference Session

The "General Conference" then has the right to vote "approve or revoke" actions made by the Exec Comm. If they never vote to "Approv" then it remains an action that SDA members are not aligned with - though some may choose to be.

By contrast the RCC supreme court justices have made it "LAW" in the US to have not only the Exec Com form of abortion to save the life of the mother -- but ALSO "abortion on demand". The RCC supreme court justices dominate the U.S. Supreme court and tip the balances for "abortion on demand"

 

[BobRyan]

so then you bring up the "sign and the authority" of the RCC -- then complain that I do have a ton of Catholic sources on that point.

And a "new point" starts to surface..

The following article quotes Francis this way --

Pope Francis says, "They are not punished, those who repent obtain the forgiveness of God and enter the rank of souls who contemplate him, but those who do not repent and cannot therefore be forgiven disappear. There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls."

Pope Francis: 'There Is No Hell'

Might this be where a lot of Catholics are going to raise the "heretic" word for "contemplation" and argue that Francis was not speaking "ex Cathedra" on doctrine??

 

[BobRyan]

====================================================

But if you are going to ask if 'even ONE Catholic person" ever said the following - I would say "yes"

I did not bring that subject up... but since you did..

Our Sunday Visitor (February 5, 1950):
Practically everything Protestants regard as essential or important they have received from the Catholic Church... The Protestant mind does not seem to realize that in accepting the Bible and observing the Sunday, in keeping Christmas and Easter, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the church, the Pope.


Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.



Question. What do we have based on the "say-so" - Authority of the Catholic Church?

The Catholic commentary on the Baltimore catechism post Vatican II

Promoted as "the perfect resource for RCIA classes"

"Imprimatur" and "Nibil Obstat" . -- Confraternity of Christian Doctrine

This RC document explains that keeping Sunday is in obedience to the Sabbath commandment. Catholics attend "in obedience to the third commandment of God 'remember thou keep holy the Lord's day'" ((from "The Faith Explained" pg 241.))

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.

Gibbons claimed that Sunday-keeping was the mark of Roman Catholic authority:

"Of course the Catholic Church claims that the change was her act. It could not have been otherwise, as none in those days would have dreamed of doing anything, in matters spiritual, ecclesiastical and religious without her. This act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters"
letter written by the Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons (November 11, 1895). 


"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].


"It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church."--Priest Brady, in an address at Elizabeth, N.J. on March 17, 1903, reported in the Elizabeth, N.J. News of March 18, 1903.


"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of one or the other of these alternatives: either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of Sunday. Compromise is impossible."--The Catholic Mirror, December 23, 1893 [The Mirror is a Baltimore Roman Catholic weekly newspaper].

"For ages all Christian nations looked to the Catholic Church, and, as we have seen, the various states enforced by law her ordinances as to worship and cessation of labor on Sunday. Protestantism, in discarding the authority of the Church, has no good reason for its Sunday theory, and ought logically, to keep Saturday as the Sabbath. The State in passing laws for the due Sanctification of Sunday, is unwittingly acknowledging the authority of the Catholic Church, and carrying out more or less faithfully its prescription. The Sunday as a day of the week set apart for the obligatory public worship of Almighty God is purely a creation of the Catholic Church."--John Gilmary Shea, in The American Catholic Quarterly Review, January 1883, p. 139 [Shea (1824-1892) was an important Catholic historian, of his time].

"Ques. --What Bible authority is there for changing the Sabbath from the seventh to the first day of the week? Who gave the Pope the authority to change a command of God?
"Ans. --It was the Catholic Church which, by the authority of Jesus Christ, has transferred this rest [from the Bible Sabbath] to the Sunday. Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the [Catholic] Church."--Monsignor Louis Segur, Plain Talk About the Protestantism of Today, 1868, p. 213 [L.G. Segur (1820-1881) was a French Catholic prelate and apologist, and later a diplomatic and judicial official at Rome.]



On the "say-so of the Catholic church"???

( "The Faith Explained" - page 242-243.)
"we know that in the Old Testament it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day - which was observed as the Lord’s Day. That was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day..the early Christian church determined as the Lord’s Day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...the reason for changing the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord’s Day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord’s Day on the say-so of the catholic church.


"homage they pay to the authority of the Catholic church??

Louis Gaston Segur, Plain Talk about the Protestantism of To-Day (London: Thomas Richardson and Son, 1874): 213:
Thus the observance of Sunday by the Protestants is a homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the (Catholic) Church.

Recall that this is not something I brought up... you did!!

 

[utilyan]

Certainly it is true that the english majors and the web admins that put content on that site are messing with the official website -- but they are not always acting in response to voted statements of the denomination.


These guidelines were approved and voted by the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists Executive Committee at the Annual Council session in Silver Spring, Maryland, October 12, 1992.

Which is telling you that it was NOT voted on by the actual world wide church representatives.

General Conference the Highest Authority In the Church today the General Conference Session

The "General Conference" then has the right to vote "approve or revoke" actions made by the Exec Comm. If they never vote to "Approv" then it remains an action that SDA members are not aligned with - though some may choose to be.

By contrast the RCC supreme court justices have made it "LAW" in the US to have not only the Exec Com form of abortion to save the life of the mother -- but ALSO "abortion on demand". The RCC supreme court justices dominate the U.S. Supreme court and tip the balances for "abortion on demand"

As the devil and an evil catholic I approve of killing everyone, that aside i'm going to make sure you swallow this lie of yours and choke on it.:

I want to hear you now say the SDA MANUAL is a LIE.

It states "the General Conference Executive Committee between Sessions, as the highest ecclesiastical authority, under God, among Seventh-day Adventists."

In other words your "world wide" gave them the crown to be the highest authority under God. Not even the bible gets that.

PAGE 29

SDA CHURCH MANUAL


General Conference the Highest Authority In the Church today the General Conference Session, and the General Conference Executive Committee between Sessions, is the highest ecclesiastical authority in the administration of the Church. The General Conference Executive Committee is authorized by its Constitution to create subordinate organizations with authority to carry out their roles. Therefore all subordinate organizations and institutions throughout the Church will recognize the General Conference Session, and the General Conference Executive Committee between Sessions, as the highest ecclesiastical authority, under God, among Seventh-day Adventists. When differences arise in or between churches and conferences or institutions, matters that are not mutually resolved may be appealed to the next higher organization. If the matter does not get resolved at this level, the aggrieved entity may appeal to successively higher levels of organization. An organization to which an appeal is forwarded may choose not to hear the matter, in which case the decision of the highest organization involved in the dispute shall be final. When organizations review decisions of other


There is no appeal or change in 1995 2000 2005 2010 2015, in fact 1992 was the change from when it was implemented in 1970s.



"Though we walk the fence, Adventists lean toward abortion rather than against it. Because we realize we are confronted by big problems of hunger and overpopulation, we do not oppose family planning and appropriate endeavors to control population." --Neal C. Wilson SDA North American President

 

[BobRyan]

As the devil and an evil catholic I approve of killing everyone,

Seems like an odd statement to make.

Why not stick with actual facts instead?

We can differ -- but making stuff up is not a good 'start'.

I want to hear you now say the SDA MANUAL is a LIE.

You efforts at creative writing... not your strong suit.

"Abortion on demand" is the LAW forced on us by our Catholic Supreme court justices who dominate the supreme court and tip the court in favor of both abortion and same-sex marriage.

It may surprise you to learn that this is not what the thread topic is about -- though you love to twist the topic over to such things.

And that was not what Walter Martin was discussing in his review of all Christian groups and the fact that SDAs are not a cult -- though you oppose "abortion to save the life of the mother" -- you apparently also don't mind turning a blind eye on a Catholic Supreme court forcing "abortion on demand" on all of America.

I realize you can find creative ways to get me to post that last paragraph 20 more times on this thread - but I wish you would choose the actual subject of this thread "instead".