A true American

So is it your postion that a government without God works better? A government that excludes God, his precepts, is a better government?

Is it also your postion that because someone else did it wrong no one else should try to attempt it.

Is it your position that a government that includes God in its laws and principles is evil and a government without God is not. God being the evil intrusion.

Is it your position that secular governments are kinder than ones that include God. And the misguiding factor in other passed governments was God?

Is it your position that if we keep God out of the scenario of government that it works better?

These are real questions, not sarcasm, not criticism. My intent is for you to answer each question as they are worded.

 

My position is that a government that tries to get involved in religion always makes it worse. We need people with God, not government with God.

The founders didn't think so. That's why they not only forbade government from endorsing religion, they forbade government from interfering with religion. Government shouild neither endorse, nor exclude God.

As Madison pointed out, whenever religion is established in government, the result is horror and evil. You cannot establish Christianity, for it will soon cease to be Christian, if it's established.

As Madison said, any establishment at all is intrinsically unchristian and evil.

Sorry, don't remember anyone saying that. Rather, government which attempts to establish God is what's evil. God neither wants nor needs government help.

That has been the case in our nation so far. We have a secular government which has been much better than any officially Christian nation. The only secular governments for which this is not true are those which are officially hostile to religion.

The misguiding factor was government trying to set up God.

My scenario is that we need God in pubkic officials, not in the laws. This is what the founders said. They wanted no part of established religion, but they thought that God was essential to a decent society.

A wall of separation, as Jefferson said. And it works. Ironically, we are more Christian than any officially Christian nation. For the reasons I've mentioned.

 

Absolutely correct!

Look at the statistics on the Western European countries rate of atheists as a percentage of population. MUCH lower than the US, even in nations with official state churches (e.g. the UK, Germany, The Netherlands, etc.). Separation is good for government and good for the church.

 

Mr

There's no such thing as a "Christian Nation." If you believe that just tell our Lord that you're an American at the Judgement. I don't think you will like your eternal destiny. Individuals are Christian. America is grounded on freedom not false Christianity.

 

Hypocritical finger pointing?

Yes, we are judged according to our faith but our deeds also say something! The Lord knows me, what I stand for, what I have done in his name and what I have done to help others.


One day I will face the Lord as all, and if he should ask what I have done in his name, I will in part answer as follows.

"Lord I shared your name and word with others. I did so in a respectful manner and without judging others. I pray maybe some came to know you from this. I tried living my life in such a manner as to bring glory to you and to serve as an example. Though I may have fallen short in these respects and am a sinner, I accept you as my savior and the gift of salvation.
Lord I also tried to insure my nation was one which recognized your Supreme authority. I tried to insure my nation would conduct itself in such a manner as respectful and reflective of your will. I tried to insure my nation would be a leader of nations and also serve as an example for all. I prayed often that my nation and government officials would continue to call upon your name in asking for forgiveness, guidance, support, and in giving Thanks to You. These things I gladly did and would do again, despite occasional ridicule."

I suppose some of you will say much the same except where your nation is concerned. You may have to answer as follows.

".....Lord I did everything I could do to insure my nation would not recognize you. I did what I could do to insure your commandments were removed from public places. Or never placed in public that children, especially the unbelievers, would never have to see them. As I did not want to offend or inconvenience anyone of other faiths or of no faiths. I also asked our officials to stop praying in your name and to stop placing other Christian symbols to be seen by people. Though these things my nation often did and throughout it's entire history. I took offense to such."



Normally I would say good luck. But to those of you who wish to remove all reference's to the Lord in the public spectrum or elsewhere; I most definitely will refrain from saying such! In addition you can rest assure I will continue supporting God in our Government. Just as I will support God in my Life, Home, Church and elsewhere! Though not perfect our Nation is simply great because of such!

By the way. You will not find anywhere where I have questioned other's faith, as that is for Jesus alone. Nor will you find anywhere where I have judged other's, as that is also for Jesus alone. Nor will you find where I have utterly disrespected other's views. I may strongly disagree but I don't resort to telling them they are hell bound, a bad or non Christian. :thumbs:

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I am glad the country and Founders had reverence for the Lord and called upon Him in establishing the government. I pray the country and elected officials continue to call upon Him and are able to. I will continue calling it a Christian Nation until I feel it is no longer. At that point all references to God will have been removed from the public square. I am sorry some of you seem to be striving for that or aiding in it.


In Christ, Ralph :wavey:

 

I think you might be a true American if you stood up for the rights of anyone who disagreed with any of these.

 

Did Christ ever do ANYTHING to make Rome a Christian empire? Did He ever encourage His apostles to engage in politics? No. In fact, He did just the opposite. He repeatedly stated that He did not come to establish an earthly kingdom but rather a heavenly one. His actions and words were always directed at individuals or small groups although he did severely criticize the Scribes and the Pharasees because of their hypocricy. Where in all the teachings of our Lord and Savior do you get this prime directive of making America a "Christian natian?" It isn't a Christian goal. It's a political one.

By the way, I whole-heartedly support the previously stated objective of electing Christians into office. I remember when I was growing up how everyone in our church wished we would someday elect a Christian President. Finally, we did. His name was Jimmy Carter. Did you support him or have you instead supported our current President has believes that Christians and Moslems worship the same god and that Moslems will be saved but by a different route than Christians?

 

Salty,

You should add

You are a true American if you are ready, willing, and able to shed your blood on the battlefield to protect America and our great way of life . . .

God bless

Wayne

 

Edited:

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: If you realize "One nation, under God" is a minority concept and would never wish to impose it on to others.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You've protested or not protested about seeing the 10 Commandments posted in public places.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You say "Winter Festival" in diverse settings within the public sphere but "Christmas" when it is appropriate in other settings.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You are audience-sensitive when it comes to public prayers.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You feel grief in your heart for national sins when someone plays the National Anthem.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You treat all people, particularly the weakest and most despised, as you yourself would wish to be treated.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You consider it an equally American thing to never burn the flag or burn it to make a statement.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: If you are slow to speak and quick to listen to what others believe, and aren't afraid to treat those different from you with full equality.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You respect your elders while also feeling free to criticize them constructively, while preparing your kids to do one day do the same.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: You'd live a lifestyle of simplicity so more of your friends need not even get to the point of asking you for your last dollar.

You might be a TRUE AMERICAN if: you are ready, willing, and able to shed your blood on the battlefield to protect America. Equally, you may forgo this and become a war critic.

 

Hello StraightAndNarrow,

Maybe you should re-read my posts. I have never said America was formed as a Christian theocracy and in fact have spoken against such. I have said America was a Christian nation as it was founded by Christians, a nation of Christians, and on Christian principles. Our laws, customs, and heritages is completely reflective of such and always has been. Otherwise we would be, as European secular nations.

Which in fact we are headed as people enable our Government to rid itself, of recognizing the Lord's supreme authority. Please show where I have ever advocated as a "prime directive" of "making" this a Christian nation? I have only advocated us in maintaining and recognizing our Christian heritage with the founding of this Nation.

As surely a day will come in which all references to God will be removed in the public square. As surely a day will come in which the Government is completely forbidden in assisting Churches or faith based groups. Which in turn helps many millions of people in the United States and abroad. As surely one day you will not be allowed to have a fish symbol or crucifix on your vehicle. Which is used on public roads! As surely one day gay-marriage, child porn, polygamy, drugs and many other such things will be common place and accepted. In addition to being taught to your children though no Christian example is allowed. As it once was and throughout it's history. A day may come in which no President or Gov. Official will be allowed to even reference God. Much less celebrate Christmas in the public, which would include your community.

This is a little bleak, but in fact what many groups are striving for and are capable of attaining. As many of us Christians go about our daily lives solely concerned with ourselves. Pure secularism(Godless) and universalism, will be the end of our nation as we know it.

I am not "advocating" anything other than to stem the tide of removing all references to the Lord. Something which was paramount in the founding of this nation and even long before that. I took issue with some who contend the nation had no Christian influence or God reverence. Which could not be furtherest from the truth. It is other's political goal to remove all reference's, historical and otherwise, of God from this nation.

I do not entirely disagree with numerous of your comments here but some are poor in nature. Who are you to judge the Christian faith of others and can you determine a man's heart? This in regards to Christianity with Bush and former presidents. Bush may well be ignorant on some matters, as we all are in certain regards, but is he less Christian? Or are you contending to be a better Christian? I am rebuking you but not out of discontent friend.

No, Rome nor Greece were Christian empires at the time of Christ on Earth. However, do you believe Jesus did absolutely nothing to change those nations or leaders? Do you believe God did/does nothing to change or influence any nation on earth? Do you believe God prefers nations, which is made of people and leaders, to be absolutely neutral about Him? Do you believe God does not judge nations or great multitudes of people? Was not the great flood the Lord's judgment on the entire world, with exception of Noah and his!?

We may not disagree as much as you think. However, again I pray our nation and leaders continue to recognize the supreme authority of our Lord. I would pray they would continue to publicaly ask God's guidance and blessings.

In Christ, Ralph

Take care.:wavey:

 

Great posts, Ralph.:thumbs:

 

Thank you LadyEagle. God Bless.