A vaccine study.

[Andre]

1) The spike protein is toxic. It's a vascular toxin.

2) The vaccine causes the spike protein to be produced in your body

3) The vaccine travels throughout your body.

These are the points I assert, and they are supported by the studies by Pfizer and Salk. If you have a disagreement with any of these points, then you'll have to show me how your evidence or reasoning is any better than that of the scientists of Salk and Pfizer.

Nonsense!!!

This is not how responsible debate works and every serious debater knows this! You do not get to simply make a claim and then expect me to disprove it.

Your claim, your responsibility to defend it.

You are simply making a claim here - where is the support?

 

[JonC]

The spike protein is not toxic (which should be obvious).

The concern I had about the vaccine was not mRNA or our body producing a spiked protein (most know better than to be concerned about that). My concern was more quality control - not in the effective ingredients but in the suspension.

But weighing risks we have to be logical rather than emotional.

 

[Revmitchell]

The spike protein is not toxic (which should be obvious).

The concern I had about the vaccine was not mRNA or our body producing a spiked protein (most know better than to be concerned about that). My concern was more quality control - not in the effective ingredients but in the suspension.

But weighing risks we have to be logical rather than emotional.

oh you must mean the type of emotional you display in every post of yours on this topic.

 

[JonC]

oh you must mean the type of emotional you display in every post of yours on this topic.

No. I'm not emotionally tied to the subject (I'm vaccinated already).

I post because a counterpoint needs to be present and for some reason so many "Christians" have resorted to utilizing misinformation.

The emotional attachment I have is not to the topic but a bit of saddness over the fact Christians have fallen away from the faith in terms of character to "support" their position.

For example, you referred to a member posting an article deliberately misquoting a CDC source as an example of "integrity". You praised the article as a "great source" for yellow journalism and misquoted. You aligned yourself with CNBC, which woukd be kinda humorous if not so sad. You posted articles that proved to be false and simply chose not to respond rather than acknowledge the mistake.

This topic has made me realize I had respected a few members (even though we disagreed on several issues) that should not have been respected as they lack Christian character.

I understand some of these guys are only afraid and need to latch on to anything that will provide them comfort. They have a choice regarding the vaccine and have for the most part been shown to be wrong. But they have made it political and have already pitched their tents in a camp. Pride keeps them from considering consequences and fear keeps them from being honest.

So there is some emotional attachment, but not to the topic. But I post only to provide counter views and highlight the character of a few.

 

[xlsdraw]

No. I'm not emotionally tied to the subject (I'm vaccinated already).

I post because a counterpoint needs to be present and for some reason so many "Christians" have resorted to utilizing misinformation.

The emotional attachment I have is not to the topic but a bit of saddness over the fact Christians have fallen away from the faith in terms of character to "support" their position.

For example, you referred to a member posting an article deliberately misquoting a CDC source as an example of "integrity". You praised the article as a "great source" for yellow journalism and misquoted. You aligned yourself with CNBC, which woukd be kinda humorous if not so sad. You posted articles that proved to be false and simply chose not to respond rather than acknowledge the mistake.

This topic has made me realize I had respected a few members (even though we disagreed on several issues) that should not have been respected as they lack Christian character.

I understand some of these guys are only afraid and need to latch on to anything that will provide them comfort. They have a choice regarding the vaccine and have for the most part been shown to be wrong. But they have made it political and have already pitched their tents in a camp. Pride keeps them from considering consequences and fear keeps them from being honest.

So there is some emotional attachment, but not to the topic. But I post only to provide counter views and highlight the character of a few.

A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
Proverbs 14:16

 

[Revmitchell]

No. I'm not emotionally tied to the subject (I'm vaccinated already).

I post because a counterpoint needs to be present and for some reason so many "Christians" have resorted to utilizing misinformation.

The emotional attachment I have is not to the topic but a bit of saddness over the fact Christians have fallen away from the faith in terms of character to "support" their position.
.

you are emotionally attached and your ungodly judgement is noted

 

[Andre]

What makes them experts? Did they perform a pharmicokinetics study on the vaccine?

No, they didn't. They're making statements based on their own assumptions.

You, of course, do not know on what basis their statements were made. The uncomfortable fact for you is this: while, yes, Dr. Bridle is an expert, the overwhelming majority of other experts disagree with him.

Here is what the Reuters fact check team had to say about Dr. Bridle's assertion that the spike protein is toxic:

False. Experts say the tiny level of spike protein measured in the bloodstream of vaccinated people does not cause toxicity; rather, they show the vaccine is getting to work. The studies Bridle cited as proof of toxicity do not support his claims.

 

[JonC]

you are emotionally attached and your ungodly judgement is noted

I pray you do take note...but sincerely take note.

Christians are not supposed to stand for ungodliness even if they agree with the opinion.

There was an OP where the article sourced a CDC statement stating that early vaccinations had a greater risk of serious illnesses with covid because the effectiveness of the vaccine declined with time and boosters should be given. Problem is the OP article presented it as the CDC stating that the vaccinated have a higher risk 9f serious complications than does he unvacvinated.

It is very obvious the OP article lied. That is undeniable.

But what did YOU do? You praised the OP for integrity and called the OP article a "great source".

Calling you out on advocating lies is not ungodly.

Christians should stand for truth, not lies. You should know better. But you see.to have fallen quite a bit since you first started on his board.

While you and I disagreed about issues I never expected you to praise sin. So I was a bit surprised to see a few of your posts. It is my fault as I assumed a certain character about you because you said you were a preacher.

 

[JonC]

@Revmitchell

The problem is every time you make a false statement you either dig in or run away. I'm not talking about opinions or accepting sources many of us would reject.

I am talking about digging in and supporting outright false statements (things blatantly fakse...not up to opinion).

I am far from the only person who has noticed this. And it hurts your character.

 

[Andre]

you are emotionally attached and your ungodly judgement is noted

How is the judgement ungodly?

It is provably the case that there is systematic lying, distortion, and other forms of dishonesty in this forum.

Is there no place for rebuke, even of the gentle kind offered by Jon C? What line needs to be crossed before rebuke is appropriate?

 

[Revmitchell]

@Revmitchell

The problem is every time you make a false statement you either dig in or run away. I'm not talking about opinions or accepting sources many of us would reject.

I am talking about digging in and supporting outright false statements (things blatantly fakse...not up to opinion).

I am far from the only person who has noticed this. And it hurts your character.

youre projecting and no I don’t run after a while I get tired of your drama and have to take a break. I’m always right here on the board. The whole run thing is another lie.


For the record unless I say “you’re a liar” then I haven’t called you a liar.

 

[Revmitchell]

I pray you do take note...but sincerely take note.

Christians are not supposed to stand for ungodliness even if they agree with the opinion.

There was an OP where the article sourced a CDC statement stating that early vaccinations had a greater risk of serious illnesses with covid because the effectiveness of the vaccine declined with time and boosters should be given. Problem is the OP article presented it as the CDC stating that the vaccinated have a higher risk 9f serious complications than does he unvacvinated.

It is very obvious the OP article lied. That is undeniable.

But what did YOU do? You praised the OP for integrity and called the OP article a "great source".

Calling you out on advocating lies is not ungodly.

Christians should stand for truth, not lies. You should know better. But you see.to have fallen quite a bit since you first started on his board.

While you and I disagreed about issues I never expected you to praise sin. So I was a bit surprised to see a few of your posts. It is my fault as I assumed a certain character about you because you said you were a preacher.

the article didn’t lie. Just cuz you don’t like the info doesn’t mean it’s a lie.

here is what we know:

we don’t know the long term effects of the vax

we do know the covid tests cannot differentiate between covid and the flu so the number of so called cases are unreliable

we know that when you go get the shot you are not allowed a copy of the consent form nor are you allowed to take a pic of it

we know that those who die with covid but primarily have other issues are listed as dying of covid

we know that people like you and the far left don’t like opposing views

 

[JonC]

youre projecting and no I don’t run after a while I get tired of your drama and have to take a break. I’m always right here on the board. The whole run thing is another lie.


For the record unless I say “you’re a liar” then I haven’t called you a liar.

No. When you praised the article for misquoting it's source you fled.

The post called you out because you were calling evil "good" (the post misquoted the CDC, you praised the OP for its integrity and the propaganda as a "great source".

Christians can and do disagree. I agree with you that tge vacvine has caused deaths and that people should not be forced to take a vaccine.

But I cannot stand by and watch you affirm evil as good - not on a Christian board.

 

[JonC]

the article didn’t lie. Just cuz you don’t like the info doesn’t mean it’s a lie.

here is what we know:

we don’t know the long term effects of the vax

we do know the covid tests cannot differentiate between covid and the flu so the number of so called cases are unreliable

we know that when you go get the shot you are not allowed a copy of the consent form nor are you allowed to take a pic of it

we know that those who die with covid but primarily have other issues are listed as dying of covid

we know that people like you and the far left don’t like opposing views

The article DID LIE. Not because it's opinion but because if what it said.

It said the CDC stated the vaccinated experience increased serious disease compared to unvacvinated.

The CDC (which was referenced by the article) said the early vaccinated experience serious disease when compared to initially vacvinated as tge vaccine seems to loose effectiveness and boosters may be needed.

The first is a corruption of the second.

You like the ultimate conclusion so you agree with the lie. Perhaps the conclusion of the article will be correct - time will tell.

BUT that does not excuse lying.

 

[Andre]

we don’t know the long term effects of the vax.

True, but not the whole story. There are very solid reasons for not expecting long-term consequences based on what we know about the mechanism by which the vaccine acts.

We can get into the details if you wish but it will not serve your argument well to do so.

And, of course, as you guys almost always do, you remain conveniently silent on the long-term effects of covid.

Is such oversight accidental?

Methinks not - unless one lives under a rock, you will know that it is already known that covid poses long-term health problems.

 

[Andre]

we do know the covid tests cannot differentiate between covid and the flu

This is a lie.

 

[Andre]

we know that when you go get the shot you are not allowed a copy of the consent form nor are you allowed to take a pic of it

Citation needed.

 

[Andre]

we know that those who die with covid but primarily have other issues are listed as dying of covid

True, but deeply misleading. Yes, most people have other conditions. But, and this is what you guys always gloss over, if the person with these other conditions had not contracted Covid, they would have lived a lot longer.

 

[Andre]

we know that people like you and the far left don’t like opposing views

Maybe. But what we do know for certain is that it is exclusively those on the anti-covid-vax side of this issue who are promoting lies and appealing to nutbar web-sites. This is a fact - an examination of the posts in these threads will show this.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

True, but not the whole story. There are very solid reasons for not expecting long-term consequences based on what we know about the mechanism by which the vaccine acts.

We can get into the details if you wish but it will not serve your argument well to do so.

And, of course, as you guys almost always do, you remain conveniently silent on the long-term effects of covid.

Is such oversight accidental?

Methinks not - unless one lives under a rock, you will know that it is already known that covid poses long-term health problems.

Fear mongering ... as well as calling into question another Christian brothers motives. Now is that the character you choose to project.