A very serious major doctrinal change after the apostles

[Thinkingstuff]

I have already explained that to you.

All you explained was that Jesus was talking about spiritual father hood yet we see with Timothy and 1 Corinthians Paul claims this title for himself. So either he disobeyed Jesus Christ or you are wrong about the meaning.

Are you going to keep repeating yourself? Are you going to keep going on as if I did not give you an answer?

You didn't answer you made an excuse for not doing what you believed Jesus told you to do.

I already told you that I did not pluck out my eyes because I wanted to keep my eyes, so I stopped sinning with them.

Exactly you made an excuse for not following Jesus unless you really believe he was using hyperbole to make a point.

Therefore, one can see more clearly the perversion of the Catholic Church, for Paul says we do not have many fathers through Christ

So Paul doesn't say what Paul says? Yes he said they were not born of many fathers. But he also says

For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Saying he's their father that they weren't the product of many different faiths. So he's their spiritual father which he is claiming to be!

he was referring to being a first, an Apostle

According to you he disobeyed Jesus commandment!!!! Why even consider him to have written scripture?

Paul still is not called ‘father’ in the Bible, nor is he called ‘pope,’ and definitely not ‘Holy Father’!

You show your lack of knowledge both scripture and fact. Paul calls himself other christians' Father (and he meant spiritually). And Pope means father. All bishops were called Papa or father. Tribal elders are also called father. Its certianly cultural. Jesus again was using hyperbole.

The Catholics try to say Peter was the first pope. Pope means father. Jesus said not to be called ‘father’ that they were BROTHERS, and that is what Peter was called!

Now your jumping topics. all I hear you say is "Catholic are bad blah blah blah blah" regurgitate the same nonsence. let me ask you this question Why is peter listed first in every listing of the 12 apostles in scripture? Why did Jesus give peter the keys of the kingdom?

You speak nonsense. You say I disobeyed Jesus because I did not cut out my eyes, but instead I stopped lusting with them. Jesus said IF YOUR EYES CAUSE YOU TO SIN…

The fact you don't want to admit is you still sin but haven't cut anything off.

Are you still lusting with your eyes Thinkingstuff? Why is that? Do you do what many Catholics do, and that is keep lusting with your eyes but feel bad about it? Feeling bad about your sin is not stopping sin.

The question doesn't apply to me because I know Jesus was using Hyperbole. You on the other hand claim he isn't therefore you not I are being hypocritical by not cutting any body part off.

Jesus is the bread from heaven

Yes he is!!! Amen.

 

[Iconoclast]

Moriah;

Many people misunderstand Paul to their destruction.

Paul did not teach disobedience to Jesus’ teachings, as the reformed groups believe and teach.

Paul taught that people are “no longer” forgiven by the works of the law

People were never forgiven by the works of the law.....never...it is always by or through grace....never works.

 

[Moriah]

All you explained was that Jesus was talking about spiritual father hood yet we see with Timothy and 1 Corinthians Paul claims this title for himself. So either he disobeyed Jesus Christ or you are wrong about the meaning.

Paul said we did NOT have many fathers in Christ, meaning not many Apostles. The Catholics have MANY fathers.
Paul never said to call him ‘father.’ Yet the Catholic Church calls their priests father, and the priests even call each other father! The priests call each other father! Jesus says we are brothers. If that is not defiance against the Word of God then what is?

You didn't answer you made an excuse for not doing what you believed Jesus told you to do.

You are the one who makes excuses to do what God says not to do. Do not call your spiritual brothers ‘father.’ It is that simple, but you refuse to obey, why?
YOU TELL ME HOW YOU OBEY GOD IN NOT CALLING ANYONE ON EARTH FATHER. Tell me now.

Exactly you made an excuse for not following Jesus unless you really believe he was using hyperbole to make a point.

I obey Jesus and you call it an excuse. That is nonsense talk.

So Paul doesn't say what Paul says? Yes he said they were not born of many fathers. But he also says
For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Saying he's their father that they weren't the product of many different faiths. So he's their spiritual father which he is claiming to be!

One can see more clearly the perversion of the Catholic Church, for Paul says we do not have many fathers through Christ, but the Catholic Church has MANY, so many that is would go into the thousands.

According to you he disobeyed Jesus commandment!!!! Why even consider him to have written scripture?

You are like many who misunderstand Paul do, to their destruction.

You show your lack of knowledge both scripture and fact. Paul calls himself other christians' Father (and he meant spiritually). And Pope means father. All bishops were called Papa or father. Tribal elders are also called father. Its certianly cultural. Jesus again was using hyperbole.

Jesus was serious about what he said. Catholics sin by calling all their popes ‘father,’ by calling their Cardinals ‘father,’ by calling their Bishops ‘father,’ by calling their priests ‘father.’
Your popes, cardinals, bishops, and priests’ sin by calling each other father and for having others call them father.
Wisdom proves you wrong, when you call everyone in your church father and they call themselves father, Jesus says they are brothers.

Now your jumping topics. all I hear you say is "Catholic are bad blah blah blah blah" regurgitate the same nonsence. let me ask you this question Why is peter listed first in every listing of the 12 apostles in scripture? Why did Jesus give peter the keys of the kingdom?

I am not jumping topics. You say all you hear is my saying Catholics are bad, but you should be hearing the words of God, because that is what I am quoting. You should be hearing that I am trying to help someone do right and know God better.

The fact you don't want to admit is you still sin but haven't cut anything off.

You cannot imagine giving up any sin can you? You have no idea what that is like do you, or else you would not say such ridiculous things to me.

The question doesn't apply to me because I know Jesus was using Hyperbole. You on the other hand claim he isn't therefore you not I are being hypocritical by not cutting any body part off.

If I stopped sinning with it, then why should I cut it off? Again and again you show that you have not stopped sinning in any way, or else you would not speak such things to me and call me a hypocrite.

Yes he is!!! Amen.

Jesus is the bread from heaven. He is not a loaf of bread that the Catholics make him out to be in their unspiritual minds. All the Catholic priests throughout the world are NOT every day or any day turning the wafers into the real body of Jesus. All the Catholic priests throughout the world are NOT every day or any day turning wine into the real blood of Jesus.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah;

People were never forgiven by the works of the law.....never...it is always by or through grace....never works.

Iconoclast,

You are wrong, for the life of a creature is in the blood, and God has given it to the Israelites to make atonement for themselves on the altar, it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

Leviticus 17:10 “‘Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood,(S) and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.”

 

[evangelist-7]

Evangelist-7, Have you watched this video?
See how people fall deeper into falseness when they accept nowadays speaking in tongues.

I wish you were wise enough to see that ...
How man responds to God's Truths has nothing to do with the fact that they are God's Truths!
or ...
How man responds to God's Truths doesn't alter the fact that they are God's Truths!

A simple example for a simple person is: how man responds to the simple gospel.

The other way to look at all things spiritual is: Don't look to man, but look to God.
.

 

[Moriah]

I wish you were wise enough to see that ...
How man responds to God's Truths has nothing to do with the fact that they are God's Truths!
or ...
How man responds to God's Truths doesn't alter the fact that they are God's Truths!

A simple example for a simple person follows: how man responds to the simple gospel.

The other way to look at all things spiritual is: Don't look to man, look to God.
.

Evangelist-7,

Why do you have a hard time answering simple questions? Why do you answer questions with insults to others? Who said the Truth is found in the number of people who believe it? Why do you speak of things as if I said them? Where do you think I have looked to man for God’s Truth, when I am not in any denomination, not even in non-denominational?

How about you answer the question, and the question was whether or not you watched the video.

 

[evangelist-7]

Recently I was introduced to this book ... The Torch of the Testimony by John W. Kennedy

Summary ...
The 2,000 year history of those Christians - and churches - that have stood outside the Protestant-Catholic tradition.
This book was originally published in India in 1964 and is little known in the western world. Beginning in the first century
John Kennedy traces the history of Christian groups who remained outside formalized religion down through the ages.
A stirring, passionate and sometimes heart-rending story of suffering to the centrality of Christ within the Body of Christ.

Someone's review ...
There are few books on church history that are so profound. Kennedy's succinct overview of the sweep of church history is enlightening to anyone, be they ignorant or knowledgeable of this subject. It is one of the best books I've read on this subject, and really stands out on it's own since the author comments profoundly at every stage of the developing events.
... Kennedy brings out the fact of a repeating pattern of resistance against spiritual life, the fresh moves of God's Spirit throughout time----showing how man's attempts to corral this unstoppable force has caused misery, error, and great sin. The illustration of this reality is a great encouragement and source of strength to those persons at present who are being touched by the Living God with a new and vibrant experience---yet are being persecuted, ostracized and mocked by the established order wherever they may be. Anyone who wants to have a knowledgeable overview of mankind's tendency to be spiritually arrogant or lazy at the expense of continuing maturity/Truth, needs to read this book. None other I have found approaches this topic with the same eloquence and deep insight.

... available on Amazon
.

 

[Moriah]

Recently I was introduced to this book ... The Torch of the Testimony by John W. Kennedy

Summary ...
The 2,000 year history of those Christians - and churches - that have stood outside the Protestant-Catholic tradition.
This book was originally published in India in 1964 and is little known in the western world. Beginning in the first century
John Kennedy traces the history of Christian groups who remained outside formalized religion down through the ages.
A stirring, passionate and sometimes heart-rending story of suffering to the centrality of Christ within the Body of Christ.

Someone's review ...
There are few books on church history that are so profound. Kennedy's succinct overview of the sweep of church history is enlightening to anyone, be they ignorant or knowledgeable of this subject. It is one of the best books I've read on this subject, and really stands out on it's own since the author comments profoundly at every stage of the developing events.
... Kennedy brings out the fact of a repeating pattern of resistance against spiritual life, the fresh moves of God's Spirit throughout time----showing how man's attempts to corral this unstoppable force has caused misery, error, and great sin. The illustration of this reality is a great encouragement and source of strength to those persons at present who are being touched by the Living God with a new and vibrant experience---yet are being persecuted, ostracized and mocked by the established order wherever they may be. Anyone who wants to have a knowledgeable overview of mankind's tendency to be spiritually arrogant or lazy at the expense of continuing maturity/Truth, needs to read this book. None other I have found approaches this topic with the same eloquence and deep insight.

... available on Amazon
.

Tongues, prophecies, and new knowledge have ceased.
You cannot add to the word of God. The Bible has everything we need for salvation.
In the New Testament, we have the “perfect law,” the perfect law has been given to us.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast,

You are wrong, for the life of a creature is in the blood, and God has given it to the Israelites to make atonement for themselves on the altar, it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.

Leviticus 17:10 “‘Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood,(S) and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.”

you have it wrong;
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Moriah]

you have it wrong;
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Iconoclast,

You said, “People were never forgiven by the works of the law.....never...it is always by or through grace....never works.”

I then replied back to you and gave you scripture showing that the works of animal sacrifices forgave the Jews. I also gave scripture showing you this.

Leviticus 17:10 “‘Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood—I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood.”

You then come back and tell me I have it wrong, and then quote Galatians 2:16.

Tell me, why did you not deal with the scripture I gave you? Why did you not deal with Leviticus 17:10? It is as if you thought you could nullify God’s word in Leviticus 17:10 by using Galatians 2:16. Did you think God was not serious in Leviticus?

The blood of animals was used by the Jews to make atonement for their sins. That is the truth.

What Paul is explaining in Galatians 2:16 that you quoted---that is the NEW TESTAMENT, that is how things are now, not how things were. Since Jesus came and shed his blood on the cross, all must go through Jesus to be saved, not by the works of the law and shedding blood from animals. That truth does not change the fact that shedding the blood of animals was something they had to do, for the atonement of their sins, it was the law.
So you see, you have it wrong, very wrong.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

The Jews were God's children and remained so by the works of the law. However, in Jesus Christ works NO LONGER save us. We no longer have to shed the blood of animals. We no longer have to be circumcised. In the Old Testament people had to obey God, and we still do today. We always had to abstain from evil and do good. The works of the law are circumcision, sin offerings, and things like that.

 

[Iconoclast]

moriah

Tell me, why did you not deal with the scripture I gave you? Why did you not deal with Leviticus 17:10? It is as if you thought you could nullify God’s word in Leviticus 17:10 by using Galatians 2:16. Did you think God was not serious in Leviticus?

The blood of animals was used by the Jews to make atonement for their sins. That is the truth.

What Paul is explaining in Galatians 2:16 that you quoted---that is the NEW TESTAMENT, that is how things are now, not how things were. Since Jesus came and shed his blood on the cross, all must go through Jesus to be saved, not by the works of the law and shedding blood from animals. That truth does not change the fact that shedding the blood of animals was something they had to do, for the atonement of their sins, it was the law.
So you see, you have it wrong, very wrong.

3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

not possible....the post stands as written....not possible:wavey:

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God


never

 

[Moriah]

moriah



3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

not possible....the post stands as written....not possible

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God


never

Iconoclast,

Why do you think that God told the Jews to get the blood of animals to make atonement?

Do you think that the Jews could choose not to do this? Please answer yes or no.

Do you think that those who had faith in God did not have to do this?

What do you think would happen if they did not do this?

When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool, and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Do you understand that it was the COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT IT WAS THE LAW, and IT WAS THE LAW WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAD FAITH IN GOD? Do you understand that? Do you understand that they had to do those things, even though they did not take away sins?
Do you understand that THEY STILL HAD TO DO THOSE THINGS THAT GOD SAID TO DO?

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming---not the realities themselves.

We have TO BELIEVE AND OBEY GOD.

Now you go ahead and answer me if Abraham had to be circumcised. He was a believer in God, did he have to be circumcised?

You tell me if Moses had to circumcise his son.

You tell me if Job had to make sin offerings.
Job was a righteous man, did he have to give sin offerings?

I am waiting for you to tell me.

 

[evangelist-7]

VERY INFORMATIVE ... More from the Administrator of a non-Pentecostal/Charismatic Forum

I was once a Cessationist and I BATTLED AGAINST this topic... all I was doing was battling against God.
I surrendered... finally surrendered and a lot of what I wrote above is what He showed me and pointed out to me.
I ignored and refused to accept all those scriptures and events I mention in this post while I was in bondage
to the Cessationist doctrine(s). All those chapters might as well been removed from all the Bible's I had.
When I surrendered, first seeing, and then understanding, and then accepted the truth of those scriptures followed.
Until I threw away that man-made Cessationist doctrine... what God did in my heart "was not possible."
The "cliche" about having "one's eye's opened"... well... when eyes ARE opened to the truth...
they can't be closed again. My eyes were not opened and that cessationist doctrine ENSURED that they stayed
closed to the truth of God's Word. Thus the very HARD period of surrender began some years ago.

I posted:
Almost everyone turns a blind eye to what God has been doing in the way of signs/wonders/miracles.
But, at least they refrain from attributing it all to Satan.

And he responded to me:
I've raised this fact in many other threads. People don't understand if they CAN'T call a s/w/m of satan...
they need to REALLY look into their heart and ask God... WHY not?
This is one of the MAIN elements in God leading me OUT of the cessationist bondage until the day I was finally free of it.
Then I was truly able to "see" what was false (of satan), fake (of man), and what was real (of God).

And he responded to someone:
What about the TRUE s/w/m of God that are happening out there in the world... can you address THEM at all?
Or are your ONLY gonna discuss the false/fake out there in the world and thus... IGNORE the true s/w/m
and REFUSE to discuss the true s/w/m of God happening today.
Tell me... with all the examples you gave above... if you witnessed any, would you immediately call the s/w/m
accomplished in your presence... OF the devil?
Think about that question seriously HARD, it is a very serious question.

And he responded to someone else:
Are you going to discuss the true s/w/m that God is doing today? Because if you are, then we will BE ABLE to discuss the scriptures. See here is the problem... if you will not acknowledge that God is doing s/w/m today, then to discuss those scriptures in accordance with what God is doing today, is impossible. I made it clear... there ARE false and fake s/w/m today done by the devil (false) and by man (fake). I can discuss about them and also discuss all the scriptures. However, there are TRUE s/w/m today done by God
... if you can discuss these s/w/m then it will be possible to discuss all those scriptures in accordance with the truth of the Bible.
If you will NOT aknowledge God continues to allow s/w/m... then the only thing you will discuss is the doctrine you have chosen to believe in and what that doctrine means and what "its" truth is. This means it will be impossible to discuss the truth of the scriptures with you in relation with what God continues to do on a miraculous level today. So let me know what you honestly plan to do.
.

 

[Iconoclast]

Iconoclast,

Why do you think that God told the Jews to get the blood of animals to make atonement?

Do you think that the Jews could choose not to do this? Please answer yes or no.

Do you think that those who had faith in God did not have to do this?

What do you think would happen if they did not do this?

When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool, and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.” In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Do you understand that it was the COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT IT WAS THE LAW, and IT WAS THE LAW WHETHER OR NOT SOMEONE HAD FAITH IN GOD? Do you understand that? Do you understand that they had to do those things, even though they did not take away sins?
Do you understand that THEY STILL HAD TO DO THOSE THINGS THAT GOD SAID TO DO?

The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming---not the realities themselves.

We have TO BELIEVE AND OBEY GOD.

Now you go ahead and answer me if Abraham had to be circumcised. He was a believer in God, did he have to be circumcised?

You tell me if Moses had to circumcise his son.

You tell me if Job had to make sin offerings.
Job was a righteous man, did he have to give sin offerings?

I am waiting for you to tell me.

all looked forward to Jesus, Jesus saves....they were commanded to keep the law but that did not save them, Jesus saves.
we are commanded to keep the law but that does not save us...Jesus saves

 

[Iconoclast]

VERY INFORMATIVE ... More from the Administrator of a non-Pentecostal/Charismatic Forum

I was once a Cessationist and I BATTLED AGAINST this topic... all I was doing was battling against God.
I surrendered... finally surrendered and a lot of what I wrote above is what He showed me and pointed out to me.
I ignored and refused to accept all those scriptures and events I mention in this post while I was in bondage
to the Cessationist doctrine(s). All those chapters might as well been removed from all the Bible's I had.
When I surrendered, first seeing, and then understanding, and then accepted the truth of those scriptures followed.
Until I threw away that man-made Cessationist doctrine... what God did in my heart "was not possible."
The "cliche" about having "one's eye's opened"... well... when eyes ARE opened to the truth...
they can't be closed again. My eyes were not opened and that cessationist doctrine ENSURED that they stayed
closed to the truth of God's Word. Thus the very HARD period of surrender began some years ago.

I posted:
Almost everyone turns a blind eye to what God has been doing in the way of signs/wonders/miracles.
But, at least they refrain from attributing it all to Satan.

And he responded to me:
I've raised this fact in many other threads. People don't understand if they CAN'T call a s/w/m of satan...
they need to REALLY look into their heart and ask God... WHY not?
This is one of the MAIN elements in God leading me OUT of the cessationist bondage until the day I was finally free of it.
Then I was truly able to "see" what was false (of satan), fake (of man), and what was real (of God).

And he responded to someone:
What about the TRUE s/w/m of God that are happening out there in the world... can you address THEM at all?
Or are your ONLY gonna discuss the false/fake out there in the world and thus... IGNORE the true s/w/m
and REFUSE to discuss the true s/w/m of God happening today.
Tell me... with all the examples you gave above... if you witnessed any, would you immediately call the s/w/m
accomplished in your presence... OF the devil?
Think about that question seriously HARD, it is a very serious question.

And he responded to someone else:
Are you going to discuss the true s/w/m that God is doing today? Because if you are, then we will BE ABLE to discuss the scriptures. See here is the problem... if you will not acknowledge that God is doing s/w/m today, then to discuss those scriptures in accordance with what God is doing today, is impossible. I made it clear... there ARE false and fake s/w/m today done by the devil (false) and by man (fake). I can discuss about them and also discuss all the scriptures. However, there are TRUE s/w/m today done by God
... if you can discuss these s/w/m then it will be possible to discuss all those scriptures in accordance with the truth of the Bible.
If you will NOT aknowledge God continues to allow s/w/m... then the only thing you will discuss is the doctrine you have chosen to believe in and what that doctrine means and what "its" truth is. This means it will be impossible to discuss the truth of the scriptures with you in relation with what God continues to do on a miraculous level today. So let me know what you honestly plan to do.
.

you are mistaken:wavey:

 

[Moriah]

all looked forward to Jesus, Jesus saves....they were commanded to keep the law but that did not save them, Jesus saves.
we are commanded to keep the law but that does not save us...Jesus saves

Jesus saves those who believe and obey him.

God gave the Jews commandments for them to obey; they would be cut off if they did not obey them. God said the life of a creature is in the blood, and He gave it to them to make atonement for themselves on the altar. Whether or not the blood of animals takes away sins is NOT the issue, the point is TBEY GOD.

Leviticus 17:10-12 “‘I will set my face against any Israelite or any foreigner residing among them who eats blood, and I will cut them off from the people. 11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life.12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, “None of you may eat blood, nor may any foreigner residing among you eat blood.”

 

[evangelist-7]

2 posts from a sincere and educated brother in the Lord ...

Understanding church history is a personal passion and one that I have invested much time and resources into.
If you want proof of what I stated in my previous post simply check out any Church history book from an unbiased source.
I personally have discovered that many historians of the Reformed persuasion have attempted to alter church history through their writings and teachings. An example of such is how many modern Reformed historians credit Jonathan Edwards as the driving component of the first great awakening when in truth he had very little involvement. In fact, it was primarily George Whitefield whom God used to launch and sustain the first great awakening however, because of his many confrontations with various leaders with the overly Calvinistic Church of England as well as his close affiliation with John Wesley, many have attempted to distort history.
As for the gifts of the Spirit, while the gifts of the Spirit may have seen a sharp decline after the first century,
there are many historical references of the gifts still being in use on into the 4th century. The reason for the decrease
was not because the Apostles had died but rather because error became more and more prevalant as the early church
became predominantly gentile. Many would attempt to interpret scripture from a Greek, Alexandrian or some other
early eastern mindset due to the church losing it's familiarity with it's Hebrew heritage.
If you hold to the idea that Continuationism is a fairly new idea then think again.
Modern Continuationism is almost as old as the protestant reformation itself.

… you have been heavily influenced by and hold to a "Reformed" perspective. Historically speaking, due to their heavy
handed views on the sovereignty of God and the predestination of man, those who hold to such views have always been somewhat anti-evangelical and have persecuted the Evangelical movement since it's conception. Their disdain for Evangelicalism was so bad that they not only harassed & slandered to good name of those God used to spread the Gospel during that time, they had actually attempted to murder some of them.
Once the Evangelical movement became established and it evolved into the Missionary movement, it wasn't long before
the gifts of the Spirit began to manifest. It is no surprise that those of the Reformed persuasion, who up until this point were Cessationists, quickly demonized these gifts by teaching Matthew 7:22 out of it's intended context and insisting that all who operate in such gifts were headed for hell.
Historically speaking, if one would collect the number of brutal acts of Godlessness that members of the Reformed perspective have committed against other Christians over the centuries, one could easily build a case against the Reformed movement suggesting that is they who are actually under the influence of the devil. In fact, in the 1800s one man did plead such a case and, while history seems to suggest that he may have been the most successful evangelist of all time, he has also been the most villafied Evangelical of all time by those of the Reformed persuasion.
With all due respect, you are an intelligent man. While you profess no allegiance to any one particular belief system
and have even gone so far as to criticize those who hold to a certain Reformed perspective (ie. Calvinism), anyone with
a trained eye can easily tell which side you take your stand. While you may not profess Cessationism, it is obvious that
you have been heavily influenced by it thus let their be no confusion, for all tense and purposes, you do stand on their side.
Of course, it is no secret that I stand in stark opposition.
Please don't mistake this post as some sort of personal attack. It is not meant to be. Since you implied that those who manifest the gifts of the Spirit are demonic, I simply felt that a brief explanation of the origins of such beliefs is warranted.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

A former Church of Christ member writes ...

They do in-fact teach that Tongues, Miracles, Wonders, Signs, etc...have ceased. They use passages in Acts 8 and
in 1 Corinthians 13 to back up their beliefs. I was taught this for years in the COC, but when you see one of the signs
happen right before your very eyes, then you realize that they are dead wrong on this. It's a very strong stronghold
in the COC's when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit. There isn't a single one of their arguments that could disuade me
from what I saw happen to my wife. To be fair, they do believe that God can do anything he wants, but the funny part
of it is, if something unexplainable happens, they really struggle to attribute it to anything miraculous.
They squirm like they have ants in their pants. I've heard some of them just say "I'm glad it worked out for you"

... and the deceived Christian church just keeps muddlin' along ...

News Flash!
Satan is "the god of this world", and the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world.
And speaking of historical truths, man has always been a spiritual idiot.

News Flash!
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)
I suppose that means He is doing the same stuff today through His
strong believers (i.e. those w/o unbelief) that He did 2000 years ago!
Yesireee Bob, I guess that's what it means all right.
.

 

[Yeshua1]

A former Church of Christ member writes ...

They do in-fact teach that Tongues, Miracles, Wonders, Signs, etc...have ceased. They use passages in Acts 8 and
in 1 Corinthians 13 to back up their beliefs. I was taught this for years in the COC, but when you see one of the signs
happen right before your very eyes, then you realize that they are dead wrong on this. It's a very strong stronghold
in the COC's when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit. There isn't a single one of their arguments that could disuade me
from what I saw happen to my wife. To be fair, they do believe that God can do anything he wants, but the funny part
of it is, if something unexplainable happens, they really struggle to attribute it to anything miraculous.
They squirm like they have ants in their pants. I've heard some of them just say "I'm glad it worked out for you"

... and the deceived Christian church just keeps muddlin' along ...

News Flash!
Satan is "the god of this world", and the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world.
And speaking of historical truths, man has always been a spiritual idiot.

News Flash!
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)
I suppose that means He is doing the same stuff today through His
strong believers (i.e. those w/o unbelief) that He did 2000 years ago!
Yesireee Bob, I guess that's what it means all right.
.

jesus IS the same as reagarding his nature/attributes, but it does NOT mean that we should experience Acts today in this present age of grace!

 

[Moriah]

A former Church of Christ member writes ...

They do in-fact teach that Tongues, Miracles, Wonders, Signs, etc...have ceased. They use passages in Acts 8 and
in 1 Corinthians 13 to back up their beliefs. I was taught this for years in the COC, but when you see one of the signs
happen right before your very eyes, then you realize that they are dead wrong on this. It's a very strong stronghold
in the COC's when it comes to the gifts of the Spirit. There isn't a single one of their arguments that could disuade me
from what I saw happen to my wife. To be fair, they do believe that God can do anything he wants, but the funny part
of it is, if something unexplainable happens, they really struggle to attribute it to anything miraculous.
They squirm like they have ants in their pants. I've heard some of them just say "I'm glad it worked out for you"

... and the deceived Christian church just keeps muddlin' along ...

News Flash!
Satan is "the god of this world", and the greatest liar and deceiver in the history of the world.
And speaking of historical truths, man has always been a spiritual idiot.

News Flash!
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)
I suppose that means He is doing the same stuff today through His
strong believers (i.e. those w/o unbelief) that He did 2000 years ago!
Yesireee Bob, I guess that's what it means all right.
.

Evangelist-7,

The Bible does not say Jesus spoke in tongues.

The Bible says speaking in tongues were a sign to the Jews, and the sign was given.

Speaking in tongues were during the laying of the foundation, the foundation has been laid.

The believers in the Bible times who spoke in tongues, they spoke in tongues supernaturally. The believers who supposedly speak in tongues nowadays, they speak gibberish and believe God turns their gibberish into supernatural language, and that is a false doctrine.