A very serious major doctrinal change after the apostles

[Yeshua1]

Why, why do you keep preaching falseness when you have been shown the truth?

You said, "NONE have even been saved on the basis of obedience/obeying of the law of God!"

Then tell me why was Moses going to be killed for not circumcising his son?

For you to teach that people only had to believe but not obey is ludicrous.

If Noah did not obey and build the ark, you think he would be saved anyway!

If Lot did not obey and leave Sodom, do you not think he would have been burned by fire and sulfur?

If Jesus did not obey and go to the cross what do you think that would be?

Jesus remains in his Father's love because he obeys! That is the Word of God.

was Abraham justified to God before or after the circumcision?

Were the Phillipian jailor, Roman centurian made right with God by faith in Jesus, or by something else required to do?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

was Abraham justified to God before or after the circumcision?

Were the Phillipian jailor, Roman centurian made right with God by faith in Jesus, or by something else required to do?

Thats a good question! Of course he was considered righteous when he believed God! However is this believe talking about a certitude that God would do it or did it call him to action? What does James say about the matter

Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

So we see faith is not with out action. The Action completes the faith otherwise it isn't faith.

See in Romans Paul is speaking to the Judaizers who rely on their circumsion. If Abraham was justified by circumsion the Jews would be right but no it was the faith that led him to be circumsized. Now what kind of faith is that? The faith Paul is speaking about in Romans is stated at the begining. The faith that leads to obedience. If Abraham hadn't believed God and was circumsized it would have done him no good the fact that he had the faith that lead him to obedience well that is what made him righteous.

 

[Moriah]

Thats a good question! Of course he was considered righteous when he believed God! However is this believe talking about a certitude that God would do it or did it call him to action? What does James say about the matter So we see faith is not with out action. The Action completes the faith otherwise it isn't faith.

See in Romans Paul is speaking to the Judaizers who rely on their circumsion. If Abraham was justified by circumsion the Jews would be right but no it was the faith that led him to be circumsized. Now what kind of faith is that? The faith Paul is speaking about in Romans is stated at the begining. The faith that leads to obedience. If Abraham hadn't believed God and was circumsized it would have done him no good the fact that he had the faith that lead him to obedience well that is what made him righteous.

That is a nice job explaining, Thinkingstuff.

Also, note that Abraham obeyed even before circumcision, when God told him to go he obeyed and went.

Read this scripture, it is about a time BEFORE circumcision.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

 

[Moriah]

was Abraham justified to God before or after the circumcision?

Were the Phillipian jailor, Roman centurian made right with God by faith in Jesus, or by something else required to do?

Abraham OBEYED God BEFORE circumcision. Not only that, Abraham's faith was tested! Remember, God told Abraham to offer Isaac as an offering.

Even when someone says they believe in God and Jesus, they should not fall away when they are tested.

 

[Yeshua1]

Abraham OBEYED God BEFORE circumcision. Not only that, Abraham's faith was tested! Remember, God told Abraham to offer Isaac as an offering.

Even when someone says they believe in God and Jesus, they should not fall away when they are tested.

he was already justified before God yeras before that act!

 

[Moriah]

he was already justified before God yeras before that act!

What are you saying? I said:

Abraham OBEYED God BEFORE circumcision. Not only that, Abraham's faith was tested! Remember, God told Abraham to offer Isaac as an offering.

Even when someone says they believe in God and Jesus, they should not fall away when they are tested.

What do you mean Abraham was justified before God years before the act?

Abraham had an obeying heart from the beginning.