Featured A.W. Pink - The Sovereignty of God, updated version!

Van

The problem is....you do go on and on...drifting away from truth:thumbs::thumbs:

 

Yet another personal attack devoid of content. That is all they have folks, slice and dicing posts, shuck and jive, but nothing sound from scripture.

Calvinism is a mistaken view of scripture, where verse after verse is plucked out of its contextual meaning and claimed to say the opposite of what it says. From becomes before, choice becomes non-choice, faith becomes works, regeneration in Christ becomes regeneration outside of Christ.

Total Spiritual Inability is a mistaken view of scripture, lacking any actual support, but being demonstrated mistaken by Romans 9:30-33, Matthew 13:1-26, the rich young ruler, and so forth.

 

You may. I pity you.

 

Yet another dismissive attack devoid of content, that is all they have folks.

Total Spiritual Inability claims we are unable to seek God or trust in Christ, yet Matthew 13:1-26 says Jesus spoke in parables to prevent understanding, Scripture say God hardens hearts to prevent acceptance of the gospel, Romans 11. In Romans 9:30-33 men seek God through works or through faith.

There is no actual support for Calvinism in scripture, only verses plucked out of the context, sometimes with words redefined, in order to claim the opposite of what scripture teaches.

Study your bibles folks, read what the verses actually say, not what Calvinism claims they say. From does not mean before. Choice does not mean non-choice. Through faith means faith provides our access to the grace in which we stand. We were chosen through faith in the truth, a conditional election. Christ died for all, to become the propitiation for the whole world. On and on, folks, Calvinism rewrites scripture to make it say the opposite of what it actually says.

 

Did God choose you first to come to jesus and get saved, or did you choose to come yourself?

 

Thanks for your excellent question. Did God choose you for salvation before you had faith in the truth? How does 2 Thessalonians 2:13 read to you. My translation says we were chosen for salvation through (eis) faith in the truth. I think "eis" is used to indicate we are chosen on the basis of faith in the truth.

 

Where did that faith come from? if from yourself, as being inate part of being human, why did you accept jesus and someone else has not?

 

Van wrote,

"Total Spiritual Inability claims we are unable to seek God or trust in Christ, yet Matthew 13:1-26 says Jesus spoke in parables to prevent understanding, Scripture say God hardens hearts to prevent acceptance of the gospel, Romans 11."

Could not that be used to in converse? God hardens whom He will? God saves whom He will? How is that not predestination?

 

No, only a Calvinist would turn those clear passages upside down. Total Spiritual Inability is mistaken doctrine. If it is not, address how men without the ability to seek God and trust in Christ received the gospel with joy. They were not running away from God, they were seeking Him. Now if you want to concede that Total Spiritual Inability is mistaken doctrine, we can move on to Calvinism's mistaken claim individuals were predestined before creation for salvation.

Or are you just trying to change the subject and run away from the truth? God would not need to harden folks who had no spiritual inability, He would not need to speak in parables.

Truth matters, embrace it.

 

I get what you were saying, but you haven't answered my question yet. Looks like you are the one that can't handle the truth. If God is not willing that any should perish, then why did He harden those in Romans so they would not believe?

 

did jesus die for the sins of all sinners, or just for those thast were to get saved by God?

 

I am sorry, but I did not answer that question before, because I missed it. You want me to address you questions without answering mine. Does "I get what you are saying" mean you agree Total Spiritual Inability is a mistaken doctrine? In discussion, clarity helps.

But I will answer yours. What verse says God is not willing that any should perish? Open your Bible to 2 Peter 3:9. The idea here is God is patient with believers (the "you" in the verse) because he is "not wishing" (NASB translation versus KJV willing) that any would perish. Look back to verse 7, God is delaying the destruction of the heavens and the earth by fire and with that delay also the destruction of ungodly men.

Notice too that in your memory, you had it as God is not willing, rather than God is not wishing or desiring. The Greek word here is can indeed mean to will, but it also can refer to a desire. The idea here is to explain why God is being patient, his delay is to allow more time for us to reach more people for Christ so more of them to come to repentance.

Which now brings us to your question. God hardened the unbelieving Jews to facilitate spreading the gospel to the Gentiles. In Romans 11 we see that Jews (based on bloodline) did not obtain what they were seeking but rather the believing Jews were "chosen" and the rest of the bloodline Jews were "hardened." But this hardening was temporary to bring about the spread of the gospel. Notice they did stumble but did not fall, verse 11. And what is the upshot, the Gentile acceptance results in jealousy among the Jews so as to help those who initially rejected the gospel might end their unbelief so they could be grafted back in.

in summary because the hardening was temporary, the action was part of God's intended action to actually bring more into the flock.

Thus when you actually study the passage, in Romans 11, it is fully consistent with God not wanting or desiring any to perish but for all to come to repentance, not by compulsion but by persuasion.

Bottom line, Calvinism is a mistaken view of scripture and all you have to do is study it to discover the truth.

 

Pitchback

Scripture says Christ died for all, becoming the propitiation for the whole world. Did that then include all those who receive the reconciliation provided by the Cross? Yes, so Jesus died for all mankind, including those subsequently chosen based on faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Here is how it was stated in post #3:

More gobbledegook from Mr. Pink. As with all things Calvinist, he states a truth, then redefines the meaning of the words. God is Sovereign! Absolutely. God does as He pleases! Absolutely.

Next He claims his opponents say God is trying to save the whole world and is failing. But what is the actual position of non-Calvinists?
That God provided the means of salvation for the whole world, but only those God puts spiritually in Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's death of the cross. Therefore, the real difference is in how God's purpose is accomplished according to scripture and not the invention of men.. Are we saved by grace through faith, or are we saved by grace and given faith. How does scripture read to you.

God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, therefore He is not the author of sin. He presents the gospel and begs us "be reconciled to God" but allows us to choose life or death. This is our Sovereign God doing as He pleases. Love does not demand its own way, and God is love. ​

Will Yeshua1 ignore this answer and post another question to change the subject? Watch and see, folks, watch and see.

 

Did the Death of Jesus by His blood make an actual propiation for sins, or just a potential one?

Did jesus death pay for those who refuse to receive Him due to their hard herats?

 

Yet another graffiti post to obscure the truth from Yeshua!. Another effort to change the subject and deny the truth. Both questions were answered in the quoted post, but Yeshua1 claims he is unable to read. Go Figure.

Scripture says Christ died for all, becoming the propitiation for the whole world. Did that then include all those who receive the reconciliation provided by the Cross? Yes, so Jesus died for all mankind, including those subsequently chosen based on faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Here is how it was stated in post #3:

More gobbledegook from Mr. Pink. As with all things Calvinist, he states a truth, then redefines the meaning of the words. God is Sovereign! Absolutely. God does as He pleases! Absolutely.

Next He claims his opponents say God is trying to save the whole world and is failing. But what is the actual position of non-Calvinists?
That God provided the means of salvation for the whole world, but only those God puts spiritually in Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's death of the cross. Therefore, the real difference is in how God's purpose is accomplished according to scripture and not the invention of men.. Are we saved by grace through faith, or are we saved by grace and given faith. How does scripture read to you.

God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, therefore He is not the author of sin. He presents the gospel and begs us "be reconciled to God" but allows us to choose life or death. This is our Sovereign God doing as He pleases. Love does not demand its own way, and God is love.

Will Yeshua1 ignore this answer and post another question to change the subject? Watch and see, folks, watch and see.

 

This is the thread that never ends, it keeps going on and on my friends...

Pointless.

 

probably due to one have preconceived erronous doctrinal views, Eh?

 

Notice how those sweet loving compassionate Calvinists hurl insult after insult, derisively dismissing discussion of Pink's shoddy exegesis as pointless.

Next He claims his opponents say God is trying to save the whole world and is failing. But what is the actual position of non-Calvinists?
That God provided the means of salvation for the whole world, but only those God puts spiritually in Christ receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's death of the cross. Therefore, the real difference is in how God's purpose is accomplished according to scripture and not the invention of men.. Are we saved by grace through faith, or are we saved by grace and given faith. How does scripture read to you.

God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass, therefore He is not the author of sin. He presents the gospel and begs us "be reconciled to God" but allows us to choose life or death. This is our Sovereign God doing as He pleases. Love does not demand its own way, and God is love. And Love never fails!

 

Difference is that we say that Jesus died for and reallt did pay for the Sin of His chosen to be saved by that act, while you state that jesus died for all, yet only a potential that they will accept and get saved!

 

I have never insulted you, to my knowledge. You don't need my help.